Busted Checkride - How to Explain?

[Lead Sled]

What's an E6B?

For what it's worth, no one cares how hard your examiners were or how high your personal standards are. On paper it appears that you have busted nearly every checkride you've ever taken. That's going to be difficult to explain away in some circles.

Personally, I can understand where you're coming from, but in the grand scheme of things all that really matters is that you have those certificates in your pocket - unless you can show me on your certificates where it says that you took your ride with an "extraordinarily" difficult DPE.

One other thing, I always get a little concerned whenever I hear pilots talk about how good they are compared to everyone else. However, there's a little of that going around - from time to time we hear from a certain T182RG pilot how how well he flies in ice.

Get off of your high horse, you've got to get your experience one hour at a time just like everyone else.

'Sled

 

[psunder]

Actually, 4 busts, 3 of which were in a row, is not a good track record. A bust is SOMETIMES a reflection on the instructor, and sometimes on the student. If any of your instructors after PPL said word one about anything you did or would do, then you did get ground from them.

Agreed, that is not a good track record (actually, I was talking about MY students) however, neither would a 100% pass rate with examiners who’s idea of an oral is to ask you what you want to talk about and BSing about his moony and classic cars for 2 hours. My choice to excel (which by literally ALL standards except for checkrides I have) and to challenge myself is unfortunately not reflected in my pass rate. All I am looking for is suggestions on how to off-set this.

If you thought what he did was unfair, then you should have taken it up with the FSDO. If not, then you're just making excuses.

I never said he was unfair... he was just very difficult (by his own admission).

Funny. You wouldn't have busted a single one of those checkrides where this true.

Simply untrue. For six people I know of at my flight school the ONLY checkride they ever busted was the ONLY time they ever took this examiner... that’s a fact. As for my initial (MEI) with the FSDO, NO ONE from our school has EVER passed an initial checkride with this man.

Quite obviously you don't, since you referred to the examiner as hard. If you truly took responsibility, you wouldn't have said a word about the examiner

Once again, incorrect. I AM TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, the only thing I am saying is that I would not (as a categorical fact) have busted but maybe one checkride had I chosen different examiners. So, yes I SCREWED UP, however... that would not have cost me a bust with other examiners. Let me say that again, I SCREWED UP, I leaned from that, and I am as good an instructor as you will find today because of it with a student pass rate that is far more a reflection of my abilities than what before essentially amounted to a test of how well I trained myself since my instructor never did a dang thing but milk me for time (I pretty much taught myself from the multi-private up).

 

[Bjammin]

Dude, Chill out!!
These guys are only giving their opinions based on what you wrote, and from my point of view I agree with most of them. I have taken many upon many checkrides and have busted one or two, but I would NEVER blame the instructor no matter how hard he was supposed to be. By the way you have descibed this so far it truly does not sound like you prepared yourself correctly for this particular guy. Did you seach out others that had him for the same checkrides and get some gouge? Did you study the PTS and know how discuss every subject in there? Knowing how to use an E6B for checkrides has always been standard practice, at least I thought it was. You should have know the valid period of a TAF for a checkride and should know when and when to not use a procedure turn. IP's can teach the wrong thing from time to time. It is up to you to validate what they teach you with some simple research. Almost everything to do with flying you can read in a book. I view instructors as someone to teach you flying techniques, help you practice, and make sure you don't kill yourself. All the rest is up to you.

I understand the need to challenge yourself and good on you for wanting to do that, but don't use that as an excuse in this case. If you are looking for an airline job and only if you are asked, I would explain exactly how you failed each checkride using the least amount of words possible, be humble in your answer, and explain what you learned.
What kind of job are you going for anyway? Give us some more insight and maybe we won't be so harsh.

 

[TimsKeeper]

Seek Help!

If you "chose" the harder examiner why are you trying to justify it now? Too late....you failed, deal with it.

You need to pass the PTS not the examiner. You made a bad decision to not reconsider examiners after the first failure.

As far as your students go, it means nothing that they are passing their checkrides when it comes to your career down the road. You failed your checkrides, that is what sticks to your resume. Also, not that it matters, are your students going to this "hard" examiner too? I doubt it.

Instead of worrying about your past...worry about your future. You ask for some advice, then jump down the responders throat! Excuse, excuse, excuse.

Stop typing and just listen to what some of these nice people are trying to offer you.

 

[landlover]

Agreed, that is not a good track record (actually, I was talking about MY students) however, neither would a 100% pass rate with examiners who’s idea of an oral is to ask you what you want to talk about and BSing about his moony and classic cars for 2 hours. My choice to excel (which by literally ALL standards except for checkrides I have) and to challenge myself is unfortunately not reflected in my pass rate. All I am looking for is suggestions on how to off-set this.



I never said he was unfair... he was just very difficult (by his own admission).



Simply untrue. For six people I know of at my flight school the ONLY checkride they ever busted was the ONLY time they ever took this examiner... that’s a fact. As for my initial (MEI) with the FSDO, NO ONE from our school has EVER passed an initial checkride with this man.



[COLO

Based on your description of this easy DPE and your profile im guessing you went to the Aviator. The easy DPE being crazy Bill Corcoran? And the difficult one being Bill Ball. If this is true let me tell you, I went to the Aviator and passed every single checkride first attempt with Bill Ball. 2nd I know of 3-4 guys that also did this. Also Bill Corcoran does fail applicants, I've seen it. Is Max still doing rides? I used him mostly for my students when I was instructing. Finally people from the Aviator have passed at the FSDO on the first try.

 

[lowslow]

So, eh, how long is a TAF good for?

You tend to forget these things after awhile anyway.

 

[siucavflight]

I have one, my student pass ratio is superb... a bust is more a refection on the instructor than the student. Outside my PPL I never received ANY ground from my instructor.



Incorrect, you need to know the examiner I went with. I have been referred to as "crazy" and "masochistic" for my choice in examiners. This mans pass rate is about 50%.... now you tell me how many checkride you would have bused had you failed 50% of them?

Now the excuses are kicking in and I see why this would be a problem on an interview. Remember IT IS YOUR FAULT. Dont blame the instructor, dont blame the examiner, IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT.

By the way, if I failed 50% of my checkrides, I would be looking for a new career as I would not trust myself in an airplane. But luckily I have not busted 1.

 

[KigAir]

So, eh, how long is a TAF good for?

You tend to forget these things after awhile anyway.

Till the next one is issued?

 

[lowslow]

That's what I thought, as in valid for the time it says it's valid for? But I'm sure there is a real, short answer here somewhere.

 

[LavMan]

Nobody is perfect. We are only human. It doesn't make you a better or worse pilot. Thier are many things people are good at besides flying when it comes to getting a job. Character, personality, social skills. Just another side of it to look at.

 

[Bjammin]

There are really 2 TAF's a 24 hour and a 9 hour. The 9 hour is mostly used over seas.
The date and validity is on the TAF itself. It will read something like "111150 111212" meaning the TAF was made on the 11th at 1150Z and is valid from 1200Z on the 11th until 1200Z on the 12th, ie 24hrs.

 

[TIS]

Simply untrue. For six people I know of at my flight school the ONLY checkride they ever busted was the ONLY time they ever took this examiner... that’s a fact. As for my initial (MEI) with the FSDO, NO ONE from our school has EVER passed an initial checkride with this man.

I think you've stumbled on to the most important thing you've missed. You've referred to your school and the bust rate of folks associated with it.

You're being sent a message both by a DPE and by the FAA proper as I understand it. How 'bout you pay attention!

And antoher thing, if you bust a private pilot checkride, okay, maybe there's some blame for the instructor. Instrument? Yeah probably there too. Commercial? Nope! You're a licensed pilot applying to become a PROFESSIONAL pilot. It's your gig to screw up not the instructor's.

CFI? CFI candidates do not fail simply because they go to the FAA for their test. They fail because they are ILL PREPARED for the test they will be given. I have signed off 17 initial CFI applicants and another 25 additional instructor endorsements. Know what? Not a SINGLE ONE ever failed - not with the FAA and not with a DPE - ever.

Look, I don't know you but I know you're in a hurry - that's why you're at a school. What's your hurry? The paycheck isn't bigger if you get there faster. On the other hand, your lack of experience can become a liability if you "live the dream" too quickly. One has only to look at a recent accident on a CRJ to know this.

I AM TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, the only thing I am saying is that I would not (as a categorical fact) have busted but maybe one checkride had I chosen different examiners. So, yes I SCREWED UP, however... that would not have cost me a bust with other examiners. Let me say that again, I SCREWED UP, I leaned from that, and I am as good an instructor as you will find today because of it with a student pass rate that is far more a reflection of my abilities than what before essentially amounted to a test of how well I trained myself since my instructor never did a dang thing but milk me for time (I pretty much taught myself from the multi-private up).

you're not listening to what you're being told by some VERY sage and wise advisors here. STOP blaming the examiner already. The checks were yours to fail, GET IT?!? Your refusal to accept this very simple reality is going to bar you from progressing to the top of this business. I've seen your kind many many times. You make mistakes you shouldn't make and always have a convenient excuse at the ready when pressed on it. Yup, been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

Adjust your attitude and accept the things you do not do so well. Accepting one's faults is the surest way to avoid having them become liabilities when the chips are down.

TIS

 

[banned username 1]

So there you go psunder.

It couldn't be any clearer than from this cross-section of professional pilots.

In the best tradition of aviators, we've tried to help an new guy out when he asked for help. We've done our job, now it's time for you to do yours. If I were you, I'd print these responses out and refer to them weekly in order to keep yourself on track to changing your perspective on aviation, your future and how you're going to get there, and most importantly, yourself.

We used to say when we interviewed that the best predictor of future performance is your past performance because frankly, without a truly life-changing event, a person never changes. You've got to find your own life-changing event.

Now, go out there and find it.

Best of luck,

UAL78

 

[FN FAL]

Once again, incorrect. I AM TAKING RESPONSIBILITY, the only thing I am saying is that I would not (as a categorical fact) have busted but maybe one checkride had I chosen different examiners. So, yes I SCREWED UP, however... that would not have cost me a bust with other examiners. Let me say that again, I SCREWED UP, I leaned from that, and I am as good an instructor as you will find today because of it with a student pass rate that is far more a reflection of my abilities than what before essentially amounted to a test of how well I trained myself since my instructor never did a dang thing but milk me for time (I pretty much taught myself from the multi-private up).

I doubt Pinnacle is going to care so much about the busted rides when they give you an interview. But they sure are going to have a lot of fun when you come out of the sim eval looking like a bear rolled you around in the prairie looking for that jelly doughnut in your pocket.

 

[WhiteCloud]

CFI? CFI candidates do not fail simply because they go to the FAA for their test. They fail because they are ILL PREPARED for the test they will be given. I have signed off 17 initial CFI applicants and another 25 additional instructor endorsements. Know what? Not a SINGLE ONE ever failed - not with the FAA and not with a DPE - ever.

That's a pretty impressive rate especially considering that at some FSDO's only 10-20% pass their initial CFI ride on the first time. I hear over and over again from the examiners in my FSDO (that is known for being "tough" on CFI tests) that they also are also very impressed when those rare individuals come to them well prepared and ready to kick some ass and take names on their flight test. I tell initial CFI applicants they will only be signed off when they are ready to nail everything down and are solid on the PTS. It may take a little longer and cost a little more than it would with another instructor but we'll do what it takes to get them to a high level of confidence so they can pass the test and, more importantly, able to work effectively as a CFI. Good job on the pass rate! We need more instructors that approach test prep your way.