Breaking News on Continental

[Flopgut]

CAL loathes sick leave use. They do not want a bunch of senior louses hanging around calling in sick 6 times a year. The early out package will be better than in previous times.

 

[SuperFLUF]

CAL loathes sick leave use. They do not want a bunch of senior louses hanging around calling in sick 6 times a year. The early out package will be better than in previous times.

I hope so.

The dysphoria of seeing anyone furloughed would certainly cause my sick leave usage to go up.

 

[conman]

The only reason a company would offer a buyout is that they plan on paying the next guy less in compensation or benefits. So, do you really advocate a buyout???

 

[Flopgut]

The only reason a company would offer a buyout is that they plan on paying the next guy less in compensation or benefits. So, do you really advocate a buyout???

Uhhh? Is that already not happening???

The bottom third of the list can't earn 50% of what the top third will make in career!

We passed that marker in the last contract. Age 65 put it one lap down.

 

[Superpilot92]

anyone think CAL is making this move now so they can clean house and use oil as the excuse? CAL has wanted to get rid of the smaller 737s for a while. Oil is dropping seems kinda fishy. either way Good luck guys/gals.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

According to Airline Pilot Central, there's 5,079 active pilots. Eight percent of that is 406 by my calculation. Man I hope it's less.

This is right out of union busting 101. Will there be furlough's? Maybe but it will not be the number you are posting.

You are not taking into account how many Company Offered Leave of Absences, early retirements etc. In 1995 I took a COLA we were able to reduce the Furlough from about 300 to 150.

 

[SuperFLUF]

The only reason a company would offer a buyout is that they plan on paying the next guy less in compensation or benefits. So, do you really advocate a buyout???

Sure.

People choosing to leave with adequate finances is certainly preferable to people being forced to leave after suffering through a year of probationary pay.

 

[conman]

Flopgut you miss my point.

The pilot who replaces the senior widebody CA would have to be paid an hourly rate of pay less than the current pilot or recieve less in benefits to make it worthwhile for Continental in this case to offer a buyout. I don't think you really want that. Yes you might get to move up a seat. But are you willing to do that job for less than it pays now????

 

[contrail67]

I only wonder if something else is in the works.

I will be surprised since it falls on the heels of UAL's announcement, that they are related in some way.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

While this entire situation sucks, I am very impressed to see these guys (Larry and Jeff) sharing in the pain. I somehow don't think we'll see this repeated many times in this industry.

Yeah, when two millionaires forgo some pocket change it brings a tear to one's eye.

I got 3 buddies there that will forgo their pocket change this fall I guess.

 

[densoo]

I think CAL feels they have two big liabilities they regret not dealing with in a BK: The A plan and the scope clause. The frozen A plan can't be touched (except in a BK) and the scope clause has to be bargained. The CAL pilot group has to stick together to protect both these. However, with furloughs in light of age 65, I think we can see where the imminent retirees might stand on scope!

"CAL pilot group has to stick together" is an oxymoron. How many MEC chairs have even finished their term since ALPA came on property. Just pushed out an LEC rep in EWR and that is just the beginning of a push to oust the current MEC regime. All this in the middle of section six openers.

"I think we can see where the imminent retirees might stand on scope"--and guess where the bottom third of the seniority list stands on the A-Fund? If there is any loophole possible to vote it away, they will because they don't have a dollar in it, they've been on a B-scale since they were hired, and didn't have any medical while working at a legacy carrier Fortune 500 company.

Yes, the "they knew that when they were hired" implies they have no legitimate gripe, but they do have a legitimate vote, equal to anyone else's now. When you don't take care of your young, they don't take care of you.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Flopgut you miss my point.

The pilot who replaces the senior widebody CA would have to be paid an hourly rate of pay less than the current pilot or recieve less in benefits to make it worthwhile for Continental in this case to offer a buyout. I don't think you really want that. Yes you might get to move up a seat. But are you willing to do that job for less than it pays now????

Conman you are full of crap using the old line of don't hurt the senior because someday you will be senior.

You pulled that tired line the last time all this happened while you kept your job, flew 100 hours a month picking up everything possible, while telling the next generation you will get yours.

Shut the F up and RETIRE you over 60 hack!

 

[ultrarunner]

move John Prater. And to think, a majority voted AGAINST Age 65.

Hey, I think our sitting president lost the majority vote, but there he sits, right?

 

[densoo]

The over 60 guys now have just as much legal right to the job as you do. If you think they should go, then I can make a case for you to take a LOA and let a junior pilot keep his job. After all, you're young and talented and can replace your CAL income on the street far easier than older guys can.

It has already started. This was posted on another forum. "You're young and talented and can replace your CAL income...easier."

Response: the age 60 guys have had 30 years or more to wisely prepare for their future. That they haven't done so is entirely their fault and the burden of their foolishness shouldn't be borne by someone else.

Their children are likely grown and gone. Boats, cars, equity in captain's houses are all investment vehicles they can fall back on. The young pilot has nothing.

So should the senior guy move to a smaller house or should the junior guy furloughed with nothing?

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut you miss my point.

The pilot who replaces the senior widebody CA would have to be paid an hourly rate of pay less than the current pilot or recieve less in benefits to make it worthwhile for Continental in this case to offer a buyout. I don't think you really want that. Yes you might get to move up a seat. But are you willing to do that job for less than it pays now????

I get your point, Conman. And I think you might be conning me?

Here's what I'm not willing to see this time: We aren't going to effectively BK the bottom half of the list to almost completely spare the top half! That's precisely what the contract we have now did. No more senior CAL pilot BS: Don't fall for the negotiating tactics. Protect the top pay rates. Protect the retirement. All the while that's exactly what the top guys are doing!

The scope clause will be more important than top payrates this time.

 

[Flopgut]

"CAL pilot group has to stick together" is an oxymoron.

Agreed!! But we have to try.

Here's the deal: Old guys stick with us on scope, we'll stick with them on A fund. The Company will take them both simultaneously.

The old guys need to show some leadership and willingness to work together to make up for the retirement age seniority grab. Young guys haven't actually done anything aggressive. They are the ones you can trust at this point.

 

[conman]

Luckytohaveajob,

You really have no clue. You don't know me. You don't know how old I am. You don't even know what airline I work for. I 've never flown 100 hours in a calendar month. I bet you did that all the time flying for a regional airline at $18 an hour. All the while knowing you were contributing to the demise of this profession by participating in the outsourcing of mainline airline jobs.

 

[conman]

Fopgut,

I've always been a big proponent of "scope". I've seen a great deal of my airline's domestic flying replaced by money losing rj's bankrolled by the mainline operation. Good luck to you at CAL. Good luck to all of us. By the way, I'm not conning ya!!

 

[JetMonkey]

Luckytohaveajob,

You really have no clue. You don't know me. You don't know how old I am. You don't even know what airline I work for. I 've never flown 100 hours in a calendar month. I bet you did that all the time flying for a regional airline at $18 an hour. All the while knowing you were contributing to the demise of this profession by participating in the outsourcing of mainline airline jobs.

WEAK! who was it that allowed rj's to be flown by regionals? Look in the miror.

 

[Flopgut]

Fopgut,

I've always been a big proponent of "scope". I've seen a great deal of my airline's domestic flying replaced by money losing rj's bankrolled by the mainline operation. Good luck to you at CAL. Good luck to all of us. By the way, I'm not conning ya!!

Well that's good to hear, and thank you. We need to hear that from senior CAL guys. One of our biggest problems: A senior CAL guy can't say to a junior one "You'll have this job someday" and mean it. Thier actions say otherwise.

 

[conman]

WEAK! who was it that allowed rj's to be flown by regionals? Look in the miror.
__________________
JetMonkey,

May I suggest you look in the mirror. I've never flown a regional jet. Can you say the same? By the way my airline's scope clause is probably the envy of the industry.

 

[sioux1]

Sorry for the news guys. I have alot of friends over there. About what DOH does 400-500 pilots go to?

 

[8sugarsugar]

They say 8% reduction in pilots now...thats just the beginning. The initial number will always be too conservative. Airlines are reducing capacity by 10% now, I predict a 20% reduction by next summer.

 

[jonjuan]

While this entire situation sucks, I am very impressed to see these guys (Larry and Jeff) sharing in the pain. I somehow don't think we'll see this repeated many times in this industry.

Riiiight. Layoff employees, cut costs, stock price goes up (up 6% today) and oh yeah, their pilots think they really care. These guys actually will make money by foregoing salary. They really are smart.
10 bucks says the chipmunk mentions his giving up his salary on the weekly update.

 

[Patriot328]

Luckytohaveajob,

You really have no clue. You don't know me. You don't know how old I am. You don't even know what airline I work for. I 've never flown 100 hours in a calendar month. I bet you did that all the time flying for a regional airline at $18 an hour. All the while knowing you were contributing to the demise of this profession by participating in the outsourcing of mainline airline jobs.

YOU, the mainline pilot, outsourced those jobs! Look in the mirror if you're trying to find someone to blame.

 

[Skank]

:uzi:THANKS AGE 65!:smash:

Yes, oil has nothing to do with it.

 

[nimtz]

Yes, oil has nothing to do with it.

As far as drastic furloughs, nope. We had the retirements to cover this easily. That was until FAT @SS Parter handed victory to the noble folks at APAAD.

 

[Patriot328]

Yes, oil has nothing to do with it.

CAL had 1000 retirements coming in the next 4-5 years. 300-ish this year alone.


So now we have no retirements and are looking at furloughing 300-ish pilots?

AGE 65 is right square in the middle of this clusterf*ck. This would be a thread about Continental potentially suspending hiring were it not for the legislative abortion that was shoved up our rear ends by a bunch of guys that couldn't let go....

 

[conman]

And you patriot 328 had nothing to do with the demise of the U.S. domestic feed??? Come on Patriot. You gladly flew service that was once flown by the mainline and no flown by the regional. You had no problem then did you.

 

[BoilerUP]

And you patriot 328 had nothing to do with the demise of the U.S. domestic feed??? Come on Patriot. You gladly flew service that was once flown by the mainline and no flown by the regional. You had no problem then did you.

The flying he did was given away, nee, SOLD by mainline pilots. He, nor any other regional pilot, didn't "take" sh!t.