breaking into the corparate market?

[Gulfstream 200]

Someone asks for some guidance and all you guys do is take shots at him for being a former airline guy. Why the hostility? The airlines have no problem hiring corporate pilots. Why do corporate pilots think they do something special? Flying is flying.




frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet.

Or how about 1 or 2 lives that are worth $3BIL in a $50 mil dollar small jet....really, whats the point here?

Having hired a few airline guys into Part 91 departments, I'd be hard pressed EVER to do it again - unless they are very well known. The 2 just rarely mix well. Flying may be flying (as you say)... but flying is just a small part of a typical 91 corp operation.

 

[BushwickBill]

why the "hostility" you ask, maybe because most corporate guys work a long time to get a good corporate job. Just because you get laid off from the airlines doesn't' mean you go to the front of the line for corporate jobs. Next time the airlines hire I want to get picked first for a job, even though I am a corporate pilot.

Or maybe these corporate pilots remember the last time they had to work with a former airline pilot....

 

[semperfido]

It's kind of a worthless argument that never really goes anywhere. Look, he is probably a regional pilot that has his own definition of "major airline" and now he is "Chief" pilot of a one pilot Seneca. Now he wants to better himself. So what?

...or maybe he just stopped by to stir the pot a little

 

[say again]

This is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. I know a few that transitioned quite well from 121 to 91, including myself.

Curiosity, what is the big part of a typical 91 corp operation for pilots?

 

[CharterDog]

I call BS on the OT. You can start by spelling "Corporate" correctly. It will make your resume/cover letter look better.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

This is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. I know a few that transitioned quite well from 121 to 91, including myself.

Curiosity, what is the big part of a typical 91 corp operation for pilots?

Oh, I know a few who have done so just fine also....but know many who have not.

Customer Service - maybe its just a coincidence, but the last handful of airline guys I worked with really never grasped the concept.

Checking an ex-121 guy out as a PIC....(a few of our aircraft had one lav) Upon servicing during an out and back, lav is dripping and cant be filled without running all over...answer..."Tell pax its inop"....its a 4.5 hr ride home. We have 3 hrs on ground and mx avail...

"Tell pax its inop?" - like...hang a sign on the door and tell them to hold it as we wait for a gate? I know for a fact our passenger would have walked off and demanded a charter asap. FWIW we got it fixed before pax came by a few simple phone calls home.

Just one of many examples - but I have seen enough 121 Customer Service for now. I know its a case by case basis, airline or not...maybe I just got a bad streak.

All I'm saying is I would have to really know the guy prior to taking on another 121 addition. Thats all...and thanks, for now I'll take being ignorant over putting the work into breaking the habits. Just dont have the patience anymore.

Just my .02 - the airline-corp debate can go on forever.

 

[gear_guy]

Oh, I know a few who have done so just fine also....but know many who have not.

Customer Service - maybe its just a coincidence, but the last handful of airline guys I worked with really never grasped the concept.

Checking an ex-121 guy out as a PIC....(a few of our aircraft had one lav) Upon servicing during an out and back, lav is dripping and cant be filled without running all over...answer..."Tell pax its inop"....its a 4.5 hr ride home. We have 3 hrs on ground and mx avail...

"Tell pax its inop?" - like...hang a sign on the door and tell them to hold it as we wait for a gate? I know for a fact our passenger would have walked off and demanded a charter asap. FWIW we got it fixed before pax came by a few simple phone calls home.

Just one of many examples - but I have seen enough 121 Customer Service for now. I know its a case by case basis, airline or not...maybe I just got a bad streak.

All I'm saying is I would have to really know the guy prior to taking on another 121 addition. Thats all...and thanks, for now I'll take being ignorant over putting the work into breaking the habits. Just dont have the patience anymore.

Just my .02 - the airline-corp debate can go on forever.

Well said, as usual.

It has also been my experience that most 121 guys lack the ability to think outside the box to get a job done. When you pay for a $50 mil jet, you expect certain things...and rightfully so. It is a little different than paying for a $150 ticket.

On the other hand, it's not really their fault. Due to their day-to-day jobs, they are conditioned to be this way. It is the union mentality.

my .02

 

[Caveman]

Or how about 1 or 2 lives that are worth $3BIL in a $50 mil dollar small jet....really, whats the point here?

No point really. I was just trying to highlight a minor difference between corporate and airline flying. It was a poor example. I never intended it to be a mine is bigger than yours argument. Sorry it came across that way.

 

[ttflyer]

frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet. ... Dead is dead, but the stakes are higher.

How in the world could you possible come to that conclusion? The stakes are higher? Sitting in your cockpit while the gate agents and flight attendants load 150+ "lives" is more stressful then flying a few people who know you by your first name and hold you personally responsible if EVERYTHING isn't perfect about their flight?

After your city bus is filled with self-loading cargo that is happy they saved three dollars on their ticket and could not care less if a retarded monkey was flying their airplane, you get to lock yourself behind the cockpit door and hide behind your union contract if you screw up.

Are you just another airline guy who doesn't get it?

 

[gear_guy]

Caveman-

Don't sweat it. In full disclosure, I am actually envious of many of the aspects of 121 flying. There have been more than a few days I have wanted to just go to the front and lock the door, have my flight plan and maifest handed to me, and never have to speak to a passenger. I also think a schedule would be nice for once in my life. But it has never been an option for me.

 

[AbOvo]

Will the media show up at your house if you have an accident in a corporate jet? I'm sure they were at the Renslow house, the Sullenberger house, the Skiles house, and the houses of the Northwest pilots. Perhaps that is part of the stress the 121 guys are talking about. Certainly a corporate pilot's family wouldn't have to deal with that situation.

The common association in 121 is that compensation is concurrent with responsibility for a certain number of lives. It's just the way it's done there and doesn't translate to corporate flying. From my personal experience corporate flying is much more demanding because you don't have the support network or the consistency of 121. The fact that in Part 121 the FAA can jumpseat at any time, a line check can happen at any time, and you can be pulled off line at a whim makes the accountability question moot.

 

[Caveman]

How in the world could you possible come to that conclusion? The stakes are higher? Sitting in your cockpit while the gate agents and flight attendants load 150+ "lives" is more stressful then flying a few people who know you by your first name and hold you personally responsible if EVERYTHING isn't perfect about their flight?

After your city bus is filled with self-loading cargo that is happy they saved three dollars on their ticket and could not care less if a retarded monkey was flying their airplane, you get to lock yourself behind the cockpit door and hide behind your union contract if you screw up.

Are you just another airline guy who doesn't get it?

Quit being so damn sensitive and learn to read. I already said it was a poor example, but since you brought it up again I stand by the concept. Landing an airliner in crappy conditions is just a bit different than doing the same thing in a corporate jet. I know your fragile little ego will never accept that. Tough.

To everybody else involved in this thread, I know it takes a different skillset to be a corporate pilot than it does to be an airline pilot. A low time corporate pilot is more competitive for a corporate job than a low time airline guy is. I get that, but at some point experience has to trump type ratings. A high time corporate pilot should have a reasonable shot a getting a job with a major airline and a high time airline pilot should have a reasonable shot at getting a good corporate job. Neither should have to start out at the bottom again. Even though there are differences their experience should allow them to transition to a new kind of flying without much difficulty. You may disagree with my premise, but anybody trying to read more into my posts than that simple point is missing the point. I wasn't trying to insult anybody.

 

[LJ45]

Will the media show up at your house if you have an accident in a corporate jet? I'm sure they were at the Renslow house, the Sullenberger house, the Skiles house, and the houses of the Northwest pilots. Perhaps that is part of the stress the 121 guys are talking about. Certainly a corporate pilot's family wouldn't have to deal with that situation.

The common association in 121 is that compensation is concurrent with responsibility for a certain number of lives. It's just the way it's done there and doesn't translate to corporate flying. From my personal experience corporate flying is much more demanding because you don't have the support network or the consistency of 121. The fact that in Part 121 the FAA can jumpseat at any time, a line check can happen at any time, and you can be pulled off line at a whim makes the accountability question moot.

really? so the media would care about a CEO of a major corporation, Senator, Governor, Celebrity etc... on board.

 

[ttflyer]

I know your fragile little ego will never accept that. Tough.

I'm sure it takes a larger, much more resilient ego to fly the "big" jets than it does to fly the little jets I fly... Another reason I'm glad I stayed in this segment of the industry.

I'm not an airline guy, so I can't speak to how "different" it is flying an airliner. Personally, I don't factor who, how many or even if any people are in the back when I make decisions. I take care of myself and everything / everybody behind me will be fine. Most airline pilots I know say the same thing.

Or by different, did you mean big jets are harder to fly? That may be the case, I don't know...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Will the media show up at your house if you have an accident in a corporate jet? I'm sure they were at the Renslow house, the Sullenberger house, the Skiles house, and the houses of the Northwest pilots. Perhaps that is part of the stress the 121 guys are talking about. Certainly a corporate pilot's family wouldn't have to deal with that situation.

Yes, good ole' Sully really seems stressed with all this media attention, I bet its hard to fight through the cameras to make it on time for the book signing or the Morning shows.

 

[Caveman]

I'm sure it takes a larger, much more resilient ego to fly the "big" jets than it does to fly the little jets I fly... Another reason I'm glad I stayed in this segment of the industry.

I'm not an airline guy, so I can't speak to how "different" it is flying an airliner. Personally, I don't factor who, how many or even if any people are in the back when I make decisions. I take care of myself and everything / everybody behind me will be fine. Most airline pilots I know say the same thing.

Or by different, did you mean big jets are harder to fly? That may be the case, I don't know...

Dude, let it go. You're reading an insult that's not there.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Landing an airliner in crappy conditions is just a bit different than doing the same thing in a corporate jet. I know your fragile little ego will never accept that. Tough.

Now THIS ya gotta expand on Ace....

Usually the FI.com limit for incredibly f'n stupid statements is 2/day.

Your quota has been met!

 

[ttflyer]

Dude, let it go. You're reading an insult that's not there.

I actually counted two insults in your post. One about my ability to read and one about the strength and size of my ego... But I am now bored with FI and your advice is good. I will let it go and move on the other things...

 

[solpilot]

Dude, let it go. You're reading an insult that's not there.

I think we all read it correctly. Why such animosity? Are you jealous of us inferior corporate guys, or just a tool?

 

[gear_guy]

Caveman-

I tried to throw you a line, but you're on your own now. I don't understand why you are trying to say that flying an airliner in crappy conditions is harder than a small jet. When was the last time you shot an approach to mins at a non towered airport in timbucktoo. My guess is not very often. You probably have your quota of straight in ILS's to 10k foot runways. You probably don't want to get in a shouting match about which job is more challenging.