breaking into the corparate market?

[captain]

How in the heck without type and time in type does anyone get into this game? All I see are jobs that require that stuff. This is probably a dead horse but WTF, everyone wants something for nothing.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

How in the heck without type and time in type does anyone get into this game? All I see are jobs that require that stuff. This is probably a dead horse but WTF, everyone wants something for nothing.

Connections and Rec's.

Time in type is FAR less important. Decent jobs usually don't care about time in type. If they want to save a few bucks on school and need someone yesterday, the job may have issues.

Its a tough market now, start by building a network and connections - oh, and do your best to put a non-airline gig on your resume. Nobody wants to be the first guy to hire you out of the Regionals - simple fact.

Good Luck.

 

[gear_guy]

This is a bad time to break into the corporate world. It is supply vs demand. There are plenty of pilots out of work with time in type and part 91 experience.

I would stick with what you have, for now. The majority of us have been in the corporate world since day 1. Thats not to say you could never make the move. It is all about timing.

Speaking for myself, all of my friends who went into the airline world laughed at me for making such a stupid decision. It has been the best career decision I have ever made. If you really want to break into the corporate world. You will have to be willing to start from the bottom.

 

[captain]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline, Chief pilot for part 91 now. I forgot how much I liked this part of aviation, the roots, not a bus driver for the masses anymore, "did my luggage make it on this flight?"

I would like to find the gig that I can settle down with but you know how aviation is "settle down" is a pipe dream.

The everlasting search continues...

 

[BoilerUP]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline, Chief pilot for part 91 now.

If that's the case, you've already answered your own question AND you haven't updated your profile to reflect such a change

 

[ttflyer]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline.

What "major airline" flies emb/atr equipment? Or have you not updated your profile?

 

[billy2331]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline, Chief pilot for part 91 now.

I don't understand your question either. I guess you did find a way because you are there now.

 

[satpak77]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline, Chief pilot for part 91 now. I forgot how much I liked this part of aviation, the roots, not a bus driver for the masses anymore, "did my luggage make it on this flight?"

I would like to find the gig that I can settle down with but you know how aviation is "settle down" is a pipe dream.

The everlasting search continues...

amazing how may furloughed-from-the-major guys are "ready to come back to their roots" in Corporate Aviation

once they get recalled, or the next job comes along, see ya. Roots? See ya

All about me baby, all about me

 

[say again]

Former airline guy. Got into corp flying because of who I knew, not what was on my resume. Come to think of it, never actually submitted one. Oh well, all for not as I havent flown in over a year (unemployed from flying, now banging nails). Tough, tough market.

 

[Rick James]

thanks, I got furloughed from a major airline, Chief pilot for part 91 now..

So you're a "Chief pilot" and not sure how to break into corporate aviaition?

What "major" flies Embraers?

 

[TMMT]

Knee pads, oh and big titties help too...

 

[TMMT]

What "major" flies Embraers?

Well I'm sure it was major for him...

 

[TMMT]

amazing how may furloughed-from-the-major guys are "ready to come back to their roots" in Corporate Aviation

once they get recalled, or the next job comes along, see ya. Roots? See ya

All about me baby, all about me

Ah yes I remember the good ole days when those bus drivers would look down their noses at my lowly steed taking up precious room in the conga line to the active.

Now I can wallpaper the hanger with their resumes...

 

[Caveman]

Someone asks for some guidance and all you guys do is take shots at him for being a former airline guy. Why the hostility? The airlines have no problem hiring corporate pilots. Why do corporate pilots think they do something special? Flying is flying.

My guess is most pilots end up at their current jobs more by chance than by design. I'm sure a good percentage of airline pilots and corporate pilots didn't set out to specifically pick a corporate or airline career path. It just happens. Whatever your first job is after instructing probably has more influence on your career path than anything else. Let's face it, most of us took the first turbine job we could live with and the rest is history. For some it was a King Air. For others it was a Saab. After that we progressed based on the experience we had on our resumes. Obviously some started out knowing which career path they wanted to pursue. I doubt they are the majority.

I'm an airline guy, but I've flown a little bit of corporate (very,very little). Based on my experience just about everybody I've flown with would do well in either world. The most unsafe pilot I ever knew was a corporate pilot. OTOH, the biggest jerk I ever met flying was an airline pilot.

Once you get some experience there's nothing particularly difficult about flying an Airbus or a Falcon. I've done both and I liked both. The unique part of corporate is the fact you are a one or two man self-contained pilot/dispatcher/logistician/gate agent/travel agent. That is a different skillset than suit up/show up fly the trip. Don't discount the challenges of the airline world though. Compared to part 91 you have a much bigger spotlight on your day to day activities and somebody else's screw up will take you down with them and, frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet. Day to day that isn't a big deal, but when the wx is crap and you're getting your ass kicked it matters. Dead is dead, but the stakes are higher. Just to be clear I'm not saying either job is harder or better. There are some subtle and not so subtle differences, but the overwhelming number of pilots I know could do either one equally as well.

If there's anything I can do to help any pro pilot I know find work I'll be glad to do it. I'd like to think most of you corporate guys would do the same thing for another fellow professional regardless of their background.

 

[LJ45]

why the "hostility" you ask, maybe because most corporate guys work a long time to get a good corporate job. Just because you get laid off from the airlines doesn't' mean you go to the front of the line for corporate jobs. Next time the airlines hire I want to get picked first for a job, even though I am a corporate pilot.

 

[BoilerUP]

Someone asks for some guidance and all you guys do is take shots at him for being a former airline guy. Why the hostility?

I didn't see much hostility towards him for being an airline guy...but I see plenty for him asking how to break into corporate with a hint of entitlement ("something for nothing" comment), then claiming to be a part 91 Chief Pilot. If he was a Part 91 chief pilot, he wouldn't need to ask how to break into the industry, now would he?

I got hired into my current 91 job with no type, no time in type, and as a regional airline first officer. As everyone has said, network network network.

frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet.

I disagree.

In the airline world, you don't have your boss in your ear as you're cleaning up from a missed approach asking "Why aren't we landing? I've got a meeting in 20 minutes. What's the plan?"

Besides, in the airline world you might be responsible for 150+ lives and a $65M jet but in bizav those 5 passengers could be responsible for a multi-billion dollar multinational corporation employing tens of thousands of people.

How's that for stress?

In the end though, both bizav and airline flying contain similar missions (fly safely point A to point B), but most everything else is different, requiring a different level of skillsets, a different tolerance for a different type of BS, and most importantly, a different mindset. You're right though, most pilots could go from one segment to another with minimal issues.

So let's not make this thread what its not - an airline vs. bizav issue.

 

[semperfido]

...there are all kinds of chief pilots, maybe he is a piper wide body chief pilot.

 

[Caveman]

He asked how to get started, not how to be the CP for a Fortune 100 company. Most good airline jobs aren't easy to come by either. They also require lots of time and effort to get there. I don't see any sense of entitlement in his post.

Using your logic, it would be absurd for a highly experienced corporate pilot to expect a reasonable shot at getting hired at a major airline because they have no airline experience. Yet we all know that most majors hire corporate pilots. No one expects experienced corporate pilots to start out at the bottom of the airline world. Why can't it be the other way around? Why should an experienced airline pilot have to start out at the very bottom in the corporate world?

Good flying jobs are hard to get. Most experienced corporate pilots would make great major airline pilots and most experienced airline pilots would make great corporate pilots.

 

[Caveman]

So let's not make this thread what its not - an airline vs. bizav issue.

I agree. It's not an airline vs bizav issue. It's about whether or not flying experience counts.

 

[BoilerUP]

He asked how to get started, not how to be the CP for a Fortune 100 company.

Someone who claims to be a part 91 chief pilot should know the answer to that question...that's my whole point!

I don't see any sense of entitlement in his post.

Then how would you quantify this statement?

All I see are jobs that require that stuff. This is probably a dead horse but WTF, everyone wants something for nothing.

That statement, especially in this economy with THOUSANDS of highly experienced corporate pilots out of work, sure seems like a bit of an entitlement attitude to me...

Why should an experienced airline pilot have to start out at the very bottom in the corporate world?

They don't...but they also shouldn't have an expectation that just because they are an experienced airline pilot that they should be able to waltz right into a part 91 department as a PIC, not knowing the airplane or the operation. Its that sense of entitlement thing again...

Also, think about the flip side of the coin: why should an experienced corporate pilot have to start out at the very bottom in the airline world?

Most experienced corporate pilots would make great major airline pilots and most experienced airline pilots would make great corporate pilots.

On that, I agree 100%.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Someone asks for some guidance and all you guys do is take shots at him for being a former airline guy. Why the hostility? The airlines have no problem hiring corporate pilots. Why do corporate pilots think they do something special? Flying is flying.




frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet.

Or how about 1 or 2 lives that are worth $3BIL in a $50 mil dollar small jet....really, whats the point here?

Having hired a few airline guys into Part 91 departments, I'd be hard pressed EVER to do it again - unless they are very well known. The 2 just rarely mix well. Flying may be flying (as you say)... but flying is just a small part of a typical 91 corp operation.

 

[BushwickBill]

why the "hostility" you ask, maybe because most corporate guys work a long time to get a good corporate job. Just because you get laid off from the airlines doesn't' mean you go to the front of the line for corporate jobs. Next time the airlines hire I want to get picked first for a job, even though I am a corporate pilot.

Or maybe these corporate pilots remember the last time they had to work with a former airline pilot....

 

[semperfido]

It's kind of a worthless argument that never really goes anywhere. Look, he is probably a regional pilot that has his own definition of "major airline" and now he is "Chief" pilot of a one pilot Seneca. Now he wants to better himself. So what?

...or maybe he just stopped by to stir the pot a little

 

[say again]

This is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. I know a few that transitioned quite well from 121 to 91, including myself.

Curiosity, what is the big part of a typical 91 corp operation for pilots?

 

[CharterDog]

I call BS on the OT. You can start by spelling "Corporate" correctly. It will make your resume/cover letter look better.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

This is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. I know a few that transitioned quite well from 121 to 91, including myself.

Curiosity, what is the big part of a typical 91 corp operation for pilots?

Oh, I know a few who have done so just fine also....but know many who have not.

Customer Service - maybe its just a coincidence, but the last handful of airline guys I worked with really never grasped the concept.

Checking an ex-121 guy out as a PIC....(a few of our aircraft had one lav) Upon servicing during an out and back, lav is dripping and cant be filled without running all over...answer..."Tell pax its inop"....its a 4.5 hr ride home. We have 3 hrs on ground and mx avail...

"Tell pax its inop?" - like...hang a sign on the door and tell them to hold it as we wait for a gate? I know for a fact our passenger would have walked off and demanded a charter asap. FWIW we got it fixed before pax came by a few simple phone calls home.

Just one of many examples - but I have seen enough 121 Customer Service for now. I know its a case by case basis, airline or not...maybe I just got a bad streak.

All I'm saying is I would have to really know the guy prior to taking on another 121 addition. Thats all...and thanks, for now I'll take being ignorant over putting the work into breaking the habits. Just dont have the patience anymore.

Just my .02 - the airline-corp debate can go on forever.

 

[gear_guy]

Oh, I know a few who have done so just fine also....but know many who have not.

Customer Service - maybe its just a coincidence, but the last handful of airline guys I worked with really never grasped the concept.

Checking an ex-121 guy out as a PIC....(a few of our aircraft had one lav) Upon servicing during an out and back, lav is dripping and cant be filled without running all over...answer..."Tell pax its inop"....its a 4.5 hr ride home. We have 3 hrs on ground and mx avail...

"Tell pax its inop?" - like...hang a sign on the door and tell them to hold it as we wait for a gate? I know for a fact our passenger would have walked off and demanded a charter asap. FWIW we got it fixed before pax came by a few simple phone calls home.

Just one of many examples - but I have seen enough 121 Customer Service for now. I know its a case by case basis, airline or not...maybe I just got a bad streak.

All I'm saying is I would have to really know the guy prior to taking on another 121 addition. Thats all...and thanks, for now I'll take being ignorant over putting the work into breaking the habits. Just dont have the patience anymore.

Just my .02 - the airline-corp debate can go on forever.

Well said, as usual.

It has also been my experience that most 121 guys lack the ability to think outside the box to get a job done. When you pay for a $50 mil jet, you expect certain things...and rightfully so. It is a little different than paying for a $150 ticket.

On the other hand, it's not really their fault. Due to their day-to-day jobs, they are conditioned to be this way. It is the union mentality.

my .02

 

[Caveman]

Or how about 1 or 2 lives that are worth $3BIL in a $50 mil dollar small jet....really, whats the point here?

No point really. I was just trying to highlight a minor difference between corporate and airline flying. It was a poor example. I never intended it to be a mine is bigger than yours argument. Sorry it came across that way.

 

[ttflyer]

frankly, being responsible for 150+ lives and $65 million dollars worth of airplane is more stressful than 5 lives and a corporate jet. ... Dead is dead, but the stakes are higher.

How in the world could you possible come to that conclusion? The stakes are higher? Sitting in your cockpit while the gate agents and flight attendants load 150+ "lives" is more stressful then flying a few people who know you by your first name and hold you personally responsible if EVERYTHING isn't perfect about their flight?

After your city bus is filled with self-loading cargo that is happy they saved three dollars on their ticket and could not care less if a retarded monkey was flying their airplane, you get to lock yourself behind the cockpit door and hide behind your union contract if you screw up.

Are you just another airline guy who doesn't get it?

 

[gear_guy]

Caveman-

Don't sweat it. In full disclosure, I am actually envious of many of the aspects of 121 flying. There have been more than a few days I have wanted to just go to the front and lock the door, have my flight plan and maifest handed to me, and never have to speak to a passenger. I also think a schedule would be nice for once in my life. But it has never been an option for me.