Breaking in a new SIC...help

[400A]

You still got pedals and a yoke in front of you in the right seat?
How could there possibly any sort of comfort issue from either seat?
Ego issue, yes. Comfort?????

This thread seems to not be about him. It's about you.
New guy on your turf....... He's got more time, more types and you hesitate to let him touch THE wheel, even though both wheels do the same thing.

You were there first and it's YOUR plane. Even if you are in the right seat. There is nothing wrong with letting him drive YOUR plane, even if he's more 'qualified' than you.

Any 'breaking in' that he requires will most likely have everything to do with what the owners expect in terms of rental cars, catering, washing the plane, etc. He will likely need nothing more from you than to set the mold for your company's expectations for standardization, work ethic, alcohol enjoyment, Captain's Confidence/Authority, etc...........

Very dangerous thoughts here. He already stated that he is new in the aircraft himself, and now you are advising him to throw someone that has never been in the aircraft in the left seat? As I stated before, in many aircraft, there is so much more than a yoke and pedals. We have not even established what kind of aircraft is involved here. I can tell you from 5 years of check airman experience, that correcting screw ups from the right seat is far more challenging from the right side. He already stated he has NEVER done this before. Why in the world would you advise him to leave his comfort zone and blame it on ego when you know nothing about him. There is a reason rookies are not allowed to do IOE.

If you really want to talk about sensitive ego's, why would you be offended by the right seat of an aircraft you have never flown? When I do contract, I could care less were I sit. Pay me my daily rate and I am more than happy to talk on the radio, sling the gear and look out the window while not having to sweat all the management details.

 

[Hamburger]

. I can tell you from 5 years of check airman experience, that correcting screw ups from the right seat is far more challenging from the right side.

It's hard to correct your own screw ups when they come from your seat? Huh?

He already stated that he is new in the aircraft himself.........

Actually, what he said was that the aircraft, which he must be current and qualified in at PIC was new. He also said that there was NO flying from the right seat.
If there is NO flying from the right seat and he refuses to sit in the right seat, how is the new guy supposed to get his hands on the wheel?

If you really want to talk about sensitive ego's, why would you be offended by the right seat of an aircraft you have never flown? When I do contract, I could care less were I sit.

My point exactly.

 

[400A]

My point exactly.

Not hardly. You are bashing him for not putting him in the left. Point and case. If my boss got on the plane and saw a new face that he knew nothing about in the left seat, he would simply get off. Most corporate operations have strict policies about this. There is a long line of bent airplanes and dead people that confirm why we do it this way. I have yet to see a company SOP refer to the Captains sensitive ego that you keep fussing about.

Stop bashing the guy for making good decisions considering all factors.

 

[Hamburger]

Not hardly. You are bashing him for not putting him in the left. Point and case. If my boss got on the plane and saw a new face that he knew nothing about in the left seat, he would simply get off. Most corporate operations have strict policies about this. There is a long line of bent airplanes and dead people that confirm why we do it this way. I have yet to see a company SOP refer to the Captains sensitive ego that you keep fussing about.

Stop bashing the guy for making good decisions considering all factors.

No touching the wheel in the right seat...

Therefore, there is really no flying from the right seat.

How's new guy going to get his hands on the wheel?

 

[Hamburger]

As I stated before, in many aircraft, there is so much more than a yoke and pedals. We have not even established what kind of aircraft is involved here.

What, exactly, (besides a tiller) do you not have full, unrestricted access to in any aircraft from both seats?

 

[400A]

Read it again, he did not say the new guy could not touch it from the right. He said that HE was not comfortable from the right because they do not normally do that.

Our operation is similar. We are both Captains and swap seats every other leg. I have yet to fly the Hawker from the right seat. There is no way I am going to put someone in the left seat with a tiller the has never flown the aircraft. He is more than welcome to fly it from the right, once I have seen 3 bounces.

 

[400A]

What, exactly, (besides a tiller) do you not have full, unrestricted access to in any aircraft from both seats?

In the Beechjet there were several items on the left side panel. Citations have switches over by the Captains left knee. King Air electrical panel is by the Captains left knee. all fairly critical if the stuff hits the fan.

 

[Hamburger]

Read it again, he did not say the new guy could not touch it from the right. He said that HE was not comfortable from the right because they do not normally do that.

I can read just fine. Feel free to quote where that was said. All I've got is a quote where the exact opposite was said:

Therefore, there is really no flying from the right seat. .

I'm not the only one that caught the tone, either.

 

[Hamburger]

In the Beechjet there were several items on the left side panel. Citations have switches over by the Captains left knee. King Air electrical panel is by the Captains left knee. all fairly critical if the stuff hits the fan.

Electrical emergency in Beech, Citation, King Air scares the Captain so bad he has a heart attack while you're in the right seat...............The flight is doomed and all the passengers die because you're helplessly unable to do anything about it?

 

[400A]

I can read just fine. Feel free to quote where that was said. All I've got is a quote where the exact opposite was said:
I'm not the only one that caught the tone, either.

He already explained it to you once. You can not only quote one sentence and show the whole picture. Go read the entire paragraph you quoted. He stated very plainly that because they are all PIC qualified they do not fly in the right seat. Don't know how else to make you understand that.

 

[400A]

Electrical emergency in Beech, Citation, King Air scares the Captain so bad he has a heart attack while you're in the right seat...............The flight is doomed and all the passengers die because you're helplessly unable to do anything about it?

Outstanding thought process.

 

[Hamburger]

I refuse to fly from the right seat and won't let you touch the left seat.
I was born, full formed in the left seat as a type rated Captain..
I have a type and you don't. You've got a couple of landings from the right seat, but let's face it, it's the right seat. I know what my insurance company and the regs require.....what am I to do?
Pretty much answers the question in the process of asking it, doesn't it?
This whole thing is asinine. Pay particular attention to the fact that five other guys managed to pick up on the attitude.

Outstanding thought process.

I agree. Curious why you don't have an answer, though. Never done flight instruction?

 

[400A]

I refuse to fly from the right seat and won't let you touch the left seat.
I was born, full formed in the left seat as a type rated Captain..
I have a type and you don't. You've got a couple of landings from the right seat, but let's face it, it's the right seat. I know what my insurance company and the regs require.....what am I to do?
Pretty much answers the question in the process of asking it, doesn't it?
This whole thing is asinine. Pay particular attention to the fact that four other guys managed to pick up on the attitude.


I agree. Curious why you don't have an answer, though. Never done flight instruction?

You have proven you can not read. Best of luck!

 

[Hamburger]

There is no way I am going to put someone in the left seat with a tiller the has never flown the aircraft. He is more than welcome to fly it from the right, once I have seen 3 bounces.

Whattya know. The question answers itself.

You have proven you can not read. Best of luck!

Me and the five other guys. Best of luck indeed.
If you need any more advice on questions who's answers have already been determined, just let me know. Also, don't be shy letting us know how that King Air electrical emergency plays out. Check Airmen worldwide need to know if it's not possible to be PIC from the right seat.

 

[stupidpilot]

You're not comfortable flying from the right seat? Really!!!???/ There is no difference other than not having a tiller and a slightly different sight picture. If you can't get over those minor differences then perhaps you might consider another occupation.

Just sayin.......

 

[dhc8fo]

400A, thanks for your response as well as the other helpful folks who took the time to post. As for the other few idiots.....well.....

Now I have the information I need to feel comfortable with getting the new guy on board. There are no ego issues here. Just safety issues, which is why I asked in the first place.

And just FYI, this guy is currently acting as an SIC, not a PIC. When he is typed and ready to fly as a PIC we will change seats like all the rest of us do. Until then, he will fly from the right because we (whoever is acting as PIC) do not fly from the right seat. I am not too sure what is so hard for you to understand about that.... I also find it hard to believe that you super pilots can jump into the right seat of a jet after NOT having flown from it for over 10 years and then possibly have to salvage something all while worrying about your livelihood. Whatever.

 

[400A]

Glad to be of help. A few have offered that we should change careers. It is always funny that those sort of arguments appear to come from someone who is not allowed to fly very often, thus being skewed against good safety decisions in and effort to accuse us of some sort of ego. Makes you wonder why someone is not letting them fly.

 

[Freight Dog]

400A, I fly both seats as well... though right now, I'm flying mostly right, yet I'm the one signing for the plane. The tiller is on the left too. Insane, right?

I've landed this airplane once from the right seat and that's it... I maintain my right seat quals in the sim on every recurrent. Do I feel comfortable in the right seat? Absolutely. I can always take the controls and safely land the plane just as I can do from the left.

Why are things like that? Because when 2 'trainees' went to their initials, our management company in their infinite wisdom decided not to give them right seat checkouts therefore limiting them to the left seat. It's the GCAA thing. These 'trainees' are highly qualified former G-IV captains... and guess what? They cannot sign for the airplane until they accomplish their line training as directed by the company, nor can they sit in the right seat/swap seats either until their first recurrent.

Are you still vertical? You didn't get a heart attack yet? Yes, I'm signing for a 50 million dollar plane from the right seat and flying a billionaire owner. He's aware of it, and he's glad. Why? Because he was briefed properly on what is taking place, and he's very supportive of it.

I think this whole left-seat hogging is an ego thing, but also a fear thing. These pilots know damn good and well they would do just fine flying from the right seat or taking over if there is a need. Instead, they don't want to look replaceable to their boss...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FD makes some great points...

We always do right seat "qualification" (x-wind landings) at recurrent just to do a few. One should be comfortable landing from either seat.

A company guy who is expected to progress along to a PIC position should be given all the opportunity possible once he demonstrates he is competent...of course, roles and seat positions in some operations can be complex (overly complex)

 

[400A]

400A, I fly both seats as well... though right now, I'm flying mostly right, yet I'm the one signing for the plane. The tiller is on the left too. Insane, right?

I've landed this airplane once from the right seat and that's it... I maintain my right seat quals in the sim on every recurrent. Do I feel comfortable in the right seat? Absolutely. I can always take the controls and safely land the plane just as I can do from the left.

Why are things like that? Because when 2 'trainees' went to their initials, our management company in their infinite wisdom decided not to give them right seat checkouts therefore limiting them to the left seat. It's the GCAA thing. These 'trainees' are highly qualified former G-IV captains... and guess what? They cannot sign for the airplane until they accomplish their line training as directed by the company, nor can they sit in the right seat/swap seats either until their first recurrent.

Are you still vertical? You didn't get a heart attack yet? Yes, I'm signing for a 50 million dollar plane from the right seat and flying a billionaire owner. He's aware of it, and he's glad. Why? Because he was briefed properly on what is taking place, and he's very supportive of it.

I think this whole left-seat hogging is an ego thing, but also a fear thing. These pilots know damn good and well they would do just fine flying from the right seat or taking over if there is a need. Instead, they don't want to look replaceable to their boss...

I am thrilled you spent so much time telling me that you think I have an ego problem. The bad news is that your situation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Your guys WENT TO SCHOOL. You also said you MAINTAIN RIGHT SEAT QUALS.. his company does not! This negates your entire rant and personal attack session.

To address your whole seat hogging and confidence problem that you believe I have. Please read again where I said that we fly every other leg in the left seat. Very comfortable in the right seat. I Could care less where I sit. UNTIL SAFETY IS A FACTOR! If this were also true, why in the world would I hire someone with only 300 hours less then me. Confidence problem.. Eh NO!! Scared?! HAhahahahaha! I used to do initial 135 Instruction and checkrides. Puhlease! I am not the one full of myself here.

What it all boils down to is you guys are not answering DC8FO's question, but immediately began your post by making personal attacks on someone you know nothing about, or what he flies. I am pretty sure who has the ego problem here, and it is not someone who makes safety decisions based on his comport level.

Also, please tell me what the cost of your ship and the worth of your owner has to do with this (talk about ego) Lives are lives, safety is safety.

I guess the airlines have it all wrong. They should start all their new hires in the left seat before they go to school. They don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!