Breaking in a new SIC...help

[400A]

Electrical emergency in Beech, Citation, King Air scares the Captain so bad he has a heart attack while you're in the right seat...............The flight is doomed and all the passengers die because you're helplessly unable to do anything about it?

Outstanding thought process.

 

[Hamburger]

I refuse to fly from the right seat and won't let you touch the left seat.
I was born, full formed in the left seat as a type rated Captain..
I have a type and you don't. You've got a couple of landings from the right seat, but let's face it, it's the right seat. I know what my insurance company and the regs require.....what am I to do?
Pretty much answers the question in the process of asking it, doesn't it?
This whole thing is asinine. Pay particular attention to the fact that five other guys managed to pick up on the attitude.

Outstanding thought process.

I agree. Curious why you don't have an answer, though. Never done flight instruction?

 

[400A]

I refuse to fly from the right seat and won't let you touch the left seat.
I was born, full formed in the left seat as a type rated Captain..
I have a type and you don't. You've got a couple of landings from the right seat, but let's face it, it's the right seat. I know what my insurance company and the regs require.....what am I to do?
Pretty much answers the question in the process of asking it, doesn't it?
This whole thing is asinine. Pay particular attention to the fact that four other guys managed to pick up on the attitude.


I agree. Curious why you don't have an answer, though. Never done flight instruction?

You have proven you can not read. Best of luck!

 

[Hamburger]

There is no way I am going to put someone in the left seat with a tiller the has never flown the aircraft. He is more than welcome to fly it from the right, once I have seen 3 bounces.

Whattya know. The question answers itself.

You have proven you can not read. Best of luck!

Me and the five other guys. Best of luck indeed.
If you need any more advice on questions who's answers have already been determined, just let me know. Also, don't be shy letting us know how that King Air electrical emergency plays out. Check Airmen worldwide need to know if it's not possible to be PIC from the right seat.

 

[stupidpilot]

You're not comfortable flying from the right seat? Really!!!???/ There is no difference other than not having a tiller and a slightly different sight picture. If you can't get over those minor differences then perhaps you might consider another occupation.

Just sayin.......

 

[dhc8fo]

400A, thanks for your response as well as the other helpful folks who took the time to post. As for the other few idiots.....well.....

Now I have the information I need to feel comfortable with getting the new guy on board. There are no ego issues here. Just safety issues, which is why I asked in the first place.

And just FYI, this guy is currently acting as an SIC, not a PIC. When he is typed and ready to fly as a PIC we will change seats like all the rest of us do. Until then, he will fly from the right because we (whoever is acting as PIC) do not fly from the right seat. I am not too sure what is so hard for you to understand about that.... I also find it hard to believe that you super pilots can jump into the right seat of a jet after NOT having flown from it for over 10 years and then possibly have to salvage something all while worrying about your livelihood. Whatever.

 

[400A]

Glad to be of help. A few have offered that we should change careers. It is always funny that those sort of arguments appear to come from someone who is not allowed to fly very often, thus being skewed against good safety decisions in and effort to accuse us of some sort of ego. Makes you wonder why someone is not letting them fly.

 

[Freight Dog]

400A, I fly both seats as well... though right now, I'm flying mostly right, yet I'm the one signing for the plane. The tiller is on the left too. Insane, right?

I've landed this airplane once from the right seat and that's it... I maintain my right seat quals in the sim on every recurrent. Do I feel comfortable in the right seat? Absolutely. I can always take the controls and safely land the plane just as I can do from the left.

Why are things like that? Because when 2 'trainees' went to their initials, our management company in their infinite wisdom decided not to give them right seat checkouts therefore limiting them to the left seat. It's the GCAA thing. These 'trainees' are highly qualified former G-IV captains... and guess what? They cannot sign for the airplane until they accomplish their line training as directed by the company, nor can they sit in the right seat/swap seats either until their first recurrent.

Are you still vertical? You didn't get a heart attack yet? Yes, I'm signing for a 50 million dollar plane from the right seat and flying a billionaire owner. He's aware of it, and he's glad. Why? Because he was briefed properly on what is taking place, and he's very supportive of it.

I think this whole left-seat hogging is an ego thing, but also a fear thing. These pilots know damn good and well they would do just fine flying from the right seat or taking over if there is a need. Instead, they don't want to look replaceable to their boss...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FD makes some great points...

We always do right seat "qualification" (x-wind landings) at recurrent just to do a few. One should be comfortable landing from either seat.

A company guy who is expected to progress along to a PIC position should be given all the opportunity possible once he demonstrates he is competent...of course, roles and seat positions in some operations can be complex (overly complex)

 

[400A]

400A, I fly both seats as well... though right now, I'm flying mostly right, yet I'm the one signing for the plane. The tiller is on the left too. Insane, right?

I've landed this airplane once from the right seat and that's it... I maintain my right seat quals in the sim on every recurrent. Do I feel comfortable in the right seat? Absolutely. I can always take the controls and safely land the plane just as I can do from the left.

Why are things like that? Because when 2 'trainees' went to their initials, our management company in their infinite wisdom decided not to give them right seat checkouts therefore limiting them to the left seat. It's the GCAA thing. These 'trainees' are highly qualified former G-IV captains... and guess what? They cannot sign for the airplane until they accomplish their line training as directed by the company, nor can they sit in the right seat/swap seats either until their first recurrent.

Are you still vertical? You didn't get a heart attack yet? Yes, I'm signing for a 50 million dollar plane from the right seat and flying a billionaire owner. He's aware of it, and he's glad. Why? Because he was briefed properly on what is taking place, and he's very supportive of it.

I think this whole left-seat hogging is an ego thing, but also a fear thing. These pilots know damn good and well they would do just fine flying from the right seat or taking over if there is a need. Instead, they don't want to look replaceable to their boss...

I am thrilled you spent so much time telling me that you think I have an ego problem. The bad news is that your situation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Your guys WENT TO SCHOOL. You also said you MAINTAIN RIGHT SEAT QUALS.. his company does not! This negates your entire rant and personal attack session.

To address your whole seat hogging and confidence problem that you believe I have. Please read again where I said that we fly every other leg in the left seat. Very comfortable in the right seat. I Could care less where I sit. UNTIL SAFETY IS A FACTOR! If this were also true, why in the world would I hire someone with only 300 hours less then me. Confidence problem.. Eh NO!! Scared?! HAhahahahaha! I used to do initial 135 Instruction and checkrides. Puhlease! I am not the one full of myself here.

What it all boils down to is you guys are not answering DC8FO's question, but immediately began your post by making personal attacks on someone you know nothing about, or what he flies. I am pretty sure who has the ego problem here, and it is not someone who makes safety decisions based on his comport level.

Also, please tell me what the cost of your ship and the worth of your owner has to do with this (talk about ego) Lives are lives, safety is safety.

I guess the airlines have it all wrong. They should start all their new hires in the left seat before they go to school. They don't want to hurt anyone's feelings!

 

[e=mc2]

Crew brief:
Shutup
Do not touch anything
Get my bag

After about 2 years maybe let him do a VFR approach at an uncontrolled airport.

Break um in the right way!

 

[400A]

Crew brief:

Break um in the right way!

Shoot yeah! Lets put them in the left seat and head for Hilton Head with the jet!

 

[stupidpilot]

We're just trying to wrap our minds around why some people thinks it's a safety issue to fly from the right seat. The plane flies the same way from the left or right seat. All that changes is the sight picture. If you're worried about the tiller then stop on a straightaway and swap seats. I fly from the right seat or left seat regularly. It doesn't matter which seat the PIC sits in he's still the PIC. If your company allows it I'd let him learn a bit in the right seat but also give him some time in the left so he's a little more ready when he goes to type school.

 

[400A]

If your company allows it I'd let him learn a bit in the right seat but also give him some time in the left so he's a little more ready when he goes to type school.

This is EXACTLY what I do. You guys invented all of this never let him fly, get my bags crap.

 

[stupidpilot]

I was more referring to the OP as far as the left/right seat thing. Just looking for a little clarification that's all.

 

[Ty Webb]

The guy is an experienced jet pilot, just not in your jet or familiar with your procedures. Here's the approach I like:

1) Spend some time sitting in the airplane talking about the switches, flows, checklist items. Cover who does what for each phase of flight. Run a few checklists. Make sure he's familiar with the FMS and your avionics, especially radios and FMS/FMC if they are unfamiliar types to him. You don't need any avoidable distractions when you guys first start flying together.

2) There is only one PIC at this point, and you're both new to the airplane, and flying together. He's not typed. Start off slow and easy. Do his 61.55 checkout with him in the right seat. Once you guys get comfortable flying together, then start easing him into the left seat. What's the rush? He's going to get typed in the thing soon, right? After that, it's seat-swapping co-captains, but let him get used to the tiller on an empty leg or two, especially if it is tricky or balky.

3) Don't forget that he needs to be familiar with abnormal and emergency procedures, per 61.55. Pull out the QRH and cover how you guys will handle an abnormal or emergency. Who will fly, who will run the checklist, who will talk to ATC. How will the QRH checklist be run? Challenge and response, or NFP runs it as a "do" list with confirmation by PF on major things?

The more you both know what to expect, the easier and more fun it will be, and that's what it's about, right?

Oh, yeah . . .debrief over beer :beer:

 

[400A]

The guy is an experienced jet pilot, just not in your jet or familiar with your procedures. Here's the approach I like:

1) Spend some time sitting in the airplane talking about the switches, flows, checklist items. Cover who does what for each phase of flight. Run a few checklists. Make sure he's familiar with the FMS and your avionics, especially radios and FMS/FMC if they are unfamiliar types to him. You don't need any distractions when you guys are new to the plane.

2) There is only one PIC at this point, and you're both new to the airplane, and flying together. He's not typed. Start off slow and easy. Do his 61.55 checkout with him in the right seat. Once you guys get comfortable flying together, then start easing him into the left seat. What's the rush? He's going to get typed in the thing soon, right? After that, it's seat-swapping co-captains, but let him get used to the tiller on an empty leg or two, especially if it is tricky or balky.

3) Have fun, dammit!

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

[stupidpilot]

The guy is an experienced jet pilot, just not in your jet or familiar with your procedures. Here's the approach I like:

1) Spend some time sitting in the airplane talking about the switches, flows, checklist items. Cover who does what for each phase of flight. Run a few checklists. Make sure he's familiar with the FMS and your avionics, especially radios and FMS/FMC if they are unfamiliar types to him. You don't need any avoidable distractions when you guys first start flying together.

2) There is only one PIC at this point, and you're both new to the airplane, and flying together. He's not typed. Start off slow and easy. Do his 61.55 checkout with him in the right seat. Once you guys get comfortable flying together, then start easing him into the left seat. What's the rush? He's going to get typed in the thing soon, right? After that, it's seat-swapping co-captains, but let him get used to the tiller on an empty leg or two, especially if it is tricky or balky.

3) Don't forget that he needs to be familiar with abnormal and emergency procedures, per 61.55. Pull out the QRH and cover how you guys will handle an abnormal or emergency. Who will fly, who will run the checklist, who will talk to ATC. How will the QRH checklist be run? Challenge and response, or NFP runs it as a "do" list with confirmation by PF on major things?

The more you both know what to expect, the easier and more fun it will be, and that's what it's about, right?

Oh, yeah . . .debrief over beer :beer:

Man, that's way too much work!!! What ever happened to "Kick the tires, light the fires." "If you can't keep up then shut up!"

 

[dhc8fo]

The guy is an experienced jet pilot, just not in your jet or familiar with your procedures. Here's the approach I like:

1) Spend some time sitting in the airplane talking about the switches, flows, checklist items. Cover who does what for each phase of flight. Run a few checklists. Make sure he's familiar with the FMS and your avionics, especially radios and FMS/FMC if they are unfamiliar types to him. You don't need any avoidable distractions when you guys first start flying together.

2) There is only one PIC at this point, and you're both new to the airplane, and flying together. He's not typed. Start off slow and easy. Do his 61.55 checkout with him in the right seat. Once you guys get comfortable flying together, then start easing him into the left seat. What's the rush? He's going to get typed in the thing soon, right? After that, it's seat-swapping co-captains, but let him get used to the tiller on an empty leg or two, especially if it is tricky or balky.

3) Don't forget that he needs to be familiar with abnormal and emergency procedures, per 61.55. Pull out the QRH and cover how you guys will handle an abnormal or emergency. Who will fly, who will run the checklist, who will talk to ATC. How will the QRH checklist be run? Challenge and response, or NFP runs it as a "do" list with confirmation by PF on major things?

The more you both know what to expect, the easier and more fun it will be, and that's what it's about, right?

Oh, yeah . . .debrief over beer :beer:

Perfect. Thanks to you and 400A.