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BRAC Rumors

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Relax Pete, Columbus and Vance are on every BRAC proposal list that comes out. In fact, most of those bases are the same ones that are always on the proposed list. The proposed list gets floated up and then the politics begin. This oughta be an interesting round, though.
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I think I heard that this time it is going to be different than the last. I thought I heard that the list will stick regardless of which senior senator it pisses off.

There is no way they would close down 2 UPT bases. To be honest, I'd like to see them try and close just one. There is no way they could combine UPT bases and keep the same number of pilots graduating each year.
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This doesn't have to make sense, these are politicians not aviators. If they close Meridian that leaves Kingsville with 4 training squadrons and not enough airspace for two. It's real fun being in the pattern with 12 students let alone 24. It will be interesting non the less.
 
I think it would be tough to move pilot training bases because there isn't a place to go that has established MOAS and airspace. It would be possible to make new space, but tough. Bases with depots and missle fields would, I think, be tough to move too. AMC bases without other missions would be easy targets for a BRAC.
 
Our problem was always the pattern. You get 3 divisions showing up at the same time on a hazy summer day and it got ugly. Luckily the tower was pretty good at correcting students turning Xwind/breaking inside their interval.
 
plattsburgher said:
I think it would be tough to move pilot training bases because there isn't a place to go that has established MOAS and airspace. It would be possible to make new space, but tough. Bases with depots and missle fields would, I think, be tough to move too. AMC bases without other missions would be easy targets for a BRAC.
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Man, it would be awful tough to get new training areas anywhere. We're losing ground rapidly as it is, and we fight tooth and nail to keep what we have. Sky Harbor swallowed Willie in PHX, and the city itself is slapping Luke around. I think Luke is one F-16 onto a High School (there's one pretty much right off the departure end) from shutting down and moving to Gila Bend. Eglin is a constant battle over approach/dept corridors and the two air-to-ground ranges to the east and west as the Ft Walton Beach area booms. We could get new airspace, but most Gov't agencies (and communities) aren't in the habit of giving stuff up they already own.
 
WizardPilot said:
ellsworth is done. Where are they going to base those B-1's?
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Ellsworth is always on there also. However, without Daschle in there to block the transaction, I think my parents are going to have to do their summertime commissary shopping elsewhere.

Maybe the big X's on the end of the runway will keep crews from landing at the wrong airport henceforth.
 
BRAC News From Ohio

the 180th in Toledo is actually going to gain 9 F-16's according to local congressmen/women and senators..

Mansfield's C-130's are going to Arkansas and Alabama

Rickenbacker is keeping all of their KC-135's and gaining jobs

Wright Patterson is keeping all of their aircraft and gaining jobs.
 
UPT wise, Moody will lose its T-6s and T-38s. Redistributed to Vance, Columbus and Laughlin (and Randolph and Sheppard for the 38s).
 
Madison, WI, and Selfridge are out as Viper bases (I think). Ft Wayne bro told me there were plussing up to 24 PAA (with Block 30s) and Springfield and Terre Haute were done. Ouch.

Richmond (VA Guard) is transitioning to F/A-22s...already have one guy in training at Tyndall.
 
The really big surprise was the closure of the submarine base in New London, CT. Also, was kind of surprised that they are re-inventing the wheel by moving Navy Officer Candidate school BACK to Newport, R.I.! And, Walter Reed is also closing. with activities consolidated at Bethesda to create a National military medical center.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead
 
psysicx said:
Miramar made it I think there are going to be a lot of happy Marines.Who wants to go to Yuma anyways.
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Happy or not, not closing Miramar (not to mention an incredible waste of cash as each member costs a small fortune in COLA and BAQ) was a mistake and a disaster for San Diego in trying to find a new airport site. Which neighborhood in flat lying land do you think will volunteer? Ocean Beach? ... Hmmmm....

The local politicians shouldn't be dancing in the streets as they are. The harsh reality is that San Diego needs a second runway. Let them explain why to the neighborhood that gets cooked - Chicago Style - for that runway.
 
Why should the Marines be blamed for the cities bad planning?When they built that airport they knew they were going to have to expand it .Why not close North Island they have plenty of room for runways and expansion?
 
I decided to be nice, edit my post, and to hold my opinions about the North Island comment to myself.
 
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I'm not saying cloes NI.If you really think they would move the airport to where Miramar is your crazy.It would be one giant housing tract like El Toro.
 
Alaska loses A-10s, Vipers, and 1 squadron of Eagles? Mt Home becomes F15E heaven?

Goodbye to Vipers at SD, Richmond, and a host of others....

Goodbye Eagles at Portland, St Louis, and Otis.

Eagles move to Atlantic City? Man...I couldn't have picked a lot of those calls....
 
psysicx said:
Why should the Marines be blamed for the cities bad planning?When they built that airport they knew they were going to have to expand it .Why not close North Island they have plenty of room for runways and expansion?
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They built in in the 30's and have been trying to move it since the 70's. Miramar should never have been given to the Marines to begin with, it should have been closed several years ago in the last BRAC. Politicians prevented it then, they can answer for it.
 
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No kiddin' Albie, the realignment really suprised me too. Not that I'm in touch with the AF anymore, but losing the vipers and the light grays @ MO really suprised me. Who thought up the idea of a composite wing anyhow? Great idea! I think it was the same insightful general that changed the flight suit. Plus , I had no idea AK was getting Raptors. Looks like the Guard units are getting a great deal -- Do you still get flight pay if your a Predator pilot? YGBSM.
See Ya
 
Hello,

I was really surprised about the closing of Otis ANGB, but I guess they wanted to put an ASA facility in Hartford closer to NYC metro area. I was thinking that Otis was in about the best strategic position of any interceptor outfit on the east coast.
What is the AF plans for pure-interceptor (Air superiority) units in the future? Will the Gaurd be recieving F-15C/Ds and retiring the A/Bs that they have been flying? Looks like we have decided to go to the absolute minimum for continental air defense.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead (and AF brat 60s-70's)
 
Another ironic point in the BRAC report...

In the mid-90s, ANG units were struggling to "mainstream" their units away from pure air defense (units like Fresno, Duluth, Great Falls, Ellington) into multi-role F-16 units that could rotate in and out SWA rotations for OSW and ONW. This was done to A) do the right thing and help active duty and B) try to insure a future role and survival of the unit.

If you read how some bases were "scored", the ability to provide Homeland Defense was a big factor in keeping certain bases open. What a change 9/11 and a few years can make...

As Fox3 alluded to, Gen McPeak wanted a "composite wing" at Mt Home and was a huge fan of the concept. Like SO many other AF ideas (moving mx to fighter squadrons, new flight suits, etc etc) this idea has now gone full circle back to where things were 20+ years ago.

I wonder who will be promoted in 2015 proposing ideas first developed in 1984?
 
Hey Albie,
God, how I couldn't stand those "McPeak" changes the AF did to the uniform! It was bad enough when they got rid of khakis in the mid-60s! (My Dad was USAAF WWII, and retired USAF in 1973 with 30 years, so he liked the khakis). Ironically, Gen. McPeak and Gen. Fogleman were in the same F-100 outfit in Viet Nam. However, their ideas on running the Air Force were alot different.
The composite wing idea was flawed, because it is a logistical nightmare and very expensive to operate. The Expeditionary air wing is a better idea, but is that still a viable doctrine today? I've been retired from the military and have kind of lost touch on things these days. However, with the proposed withdrawls from Korea and Europe. The Air Force will be facing a major problem in how to deploy and operate it's forces. It would seem that strategic airlift/tanker support and civil engineering (Red Bull/Prime Beef) will be an area that re-capitalization needs to take place. Very challenging era ahead for the next generation of AF leaders/planners.
I have to admit a little bit of bias toward Otis. My Dad was stationed there twice 62-66 and 70-73. I basically grew up on the base and alot of my fondest memories are of waking up to the sound of airplanes at the flightline just a couple of miles away from the housing area. My Dad flew the EC-121, C-54, EB-57 and T-33 at Otis, but I really loved the F-101 and later when the Mass ANG moved down from Logan they flew the F-84, F-100 and F-106 (THE ultimate single-seat fighter ever flown by the USAF IMHO). So, I am a little sad now that Otis is loosing it's flying mission for the USAF, but I guess that the radius of action for the F-15 dictated the move.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead (USAF brat 60's/70's)
 
Does this mean you have to move CC or can you commute?
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I transfered units a while ago, pretty lucky I guess. It's too early to tell what the guys at Otis, and all the other Eagle pilots will do.
 
Remember too, that BRAC doesn't happen 1 week after recommendations are posted. The whole package will get argued over, tweaked, and only then activated.

Once activated, the process takes time. A guy less than 5 years from retirement at a BRAC unit might still be able to retire without having to make a move.
 
Is the Coast Guard base at Otis gonna stay?
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Otis is only the AF side of the field. The other side where the Army and Coast Guard live goes by a different name. I doubt the Coast Guard will leave, too busy rescuing fishermen, but someone’s going to have to pick up the snow removal bill.

 

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