Bluetruthpilots

[Dizel8]

How has it stood for the last 5 yrs?

It still stands, there has been no change. A judge has already heard the case and said that if anything other than the binding arbitration is instituted, it will be a breach of said.

USAPA was simply formed to impose DOH on the AWA pilots, it didn't work.

As someone else said, if Airways and AA merge they must use the Nicolau award as the current seniority list at Airways.

The pilots at Airways are loosing boat loads of money every year, since they haven't negotiated a new contract and are still working under the CH.11 imposed contract.

 

[Dizel8]

Precisely. There is ALWAYS a way around, whether he wants to admit or not. USAir proves it.

It's probably costing the average Airways pilot 30K a year, if not more, to keep fighting the integration.

If they were to finally realize that binding means binding, they can move forward and negotiate a new contract.

 

[PCL_128]

How has it stood for the last 5 yrs?

Not sure what you mean. The Nic Award is the seniority list for the Airways pilots. Period. Unless the East pilots never want to get a new contract, then they're going to have to live with the award at some point. They will never get another list. It really is that simple. Binding means binding.

 

[Flyer1015]

Not sure what you mean. The Nic Award is the seniority list for the Airways pilots. Period. Unless the East pilots never want to get a new contract, then they're going to have to live with the award at some point. They will never get another list. It really is that simple. Binding means binding.

So if binding means binding, how come it hasn't for the past 5 years?

 

[Dizel8]

So if binding means binding, how come it hasn't for the past 5 years?

The Nic is the seniority list for integration, East has chosen not to integrate the list. The Nic doesn't force them to integrate, it simply says that if they do, that it will be the seniority list.

Parker must be loving it!

 

[PCL_128]

So if binding means binding, how come it hasn't for the past 5 years?

Their seniority agreement says that the list won't be combined until after a new CBA is ratified. No new CBA yet, so the list hasn't been combined. When they finally do get a new CBA, though, the Nic is the list that will be used.

 

[BeachBummer]

The Nic is the seniority list for integration, East has chosen not to integrate the list. The Nic doesn't force them to integrate, it simply says that if they do, that it will be the seniority list.

Parker must be loving it!

This is a wet dream for any CEO. I think it's sad... Save a few hundred million every year because our employees can't get it together. Blame the other side, let them fight it out.

 

[Lake Alice]

This is a wet dream for any CEO. I think it's sad... Save a few hundred million every year because our employees can't get it together. Blame the other side, let them fight it out.

The JetBlue pilot group is a wet dream for any CEO. What other airline has walked all over their pilot group with no recourse. DB wins CEO of the year.

 

[BeachBummer]

We're not being walked on!? No, sir. We are compensated in a wholistic way. Our culture is one of the top forms of compensation that you recieve. Didn't you get one of the new surveys?

Please rank the following items 1-7, in terms of what motivates you in your current job.
Travel Benefits (really?)
Having the support of your immediate CrewLeader (if you can find him)
Realizing your career potential (I've realized it's probably not here)
Having quality personal relationships with fellow Crewmembers (...no)
Having visibility with senior leadership (why, so they can lie to my face some more?)
Salary (peer set industry average)
Being recognized for a job well done (you can do this by fixing retirement, the FSM, Healthcare, the DRM/PPA/PEA/PVC...ECT!)

These are all VERY important for me, I don't even know how to rank them... Check that Salary: 1

 

[Lake Alice]

I must have accidentally deleted that survey.

 

[Lake Alice]

Anyone check out the new seniority calculator? If you are under the age of 40 it's sobering.

 

[Blue Dude]

Hell, if you're *over* the age of 40 it's sobering. Basically no movement from retirements for 10-15 years. What you got is what you get. Any advancement is *only* from growth.

 

[Flyer1015]

Hell, if you're *over* the age of 40 it's sobering. Basically no movement from retirements for 10-15 years. What you got is what you get. Any advancement is *only* from growth.

For JetBlue?

 

[NoPFactor]

Anyone check out the new seniority calculator? If you are under the age of 40 it's sobering.

If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you applied for the job, thats excusable. If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you accepted the job then your a moron and have nothing to complain about.

 

[Dizel8]

For JetBlue?

Yes, for blue.

 

[aewanabe]

If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you applied for the job, thats excusable. If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you accepted the job then your a moron and have nothing to complain about.

You're a moron.... Thy name is irony, no?

 

[Blue Dude]

If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you applied for the job, thats excusable. If you didn't know this pilot demographic when you accepted the job then your a moron and have nothing to complain about.

Until these past few days, specific demographics were a well kept secret. You could get a feel for the age distribution of the pilot group by casual observation but there was no way to definitively determine where you were going to fall over time. Every other airline I know of distributes this information as a matter of course. JetBlue did not. And now I think we've found out why.

 

[linepilot]

Suffering is good.

 

[J32driver]

For anyone thinking of applying you are looking at roughly 10 to 20 retirements per year, until 2030. Then it picks up to 50 to 100 a year.

 

[pilotpayne]

Suffering is good.

And when do you retire?

 

[PsubS]

Until these past few days, specific demographics were a well kept secret. You could get a feel for the age distribution of the pilot group by casual observation but there was no way to definitively determine where you were going to fall over time. Every other airline I know of distributes this information as a matter of course. JetBlue did not. And now I think we've found out why.

Look, I think the company has done many things that are not quite "above board." But examine this whole "they kept it secret from us..." line of thought.

IF they had kept this list "a secret" for almost 12 years, and IF they had wanted to keep the seniority list a continuing secret, why would they have given Chuck permission to create the function...and post it to the pilot page at this point? It would have been no big deal to squash the initiative, yet our management approved it.

Come on...there are bigger fish to fry than creating yet another conspiracy theory that diminishes your ability to get the important issues out front.

 

[Blue Dude]

PsubS, I'd agree with you if nobody had been trying to get this info out there for the last 12 years, but there have been numerous attempts, all of which were put down firmly. I have no idea why it's out there at this particular time, maybe because the app was created by an in-house project pilot rather than Joe Blow line pilot working on his own for free. Maybe hosting it inside stripped away the last of the ridiculous "legal" objections and they ran out of excuses. None of this redefines past behavior in a better light, and calling pilot retirement demographics a "well kept secret" is not exaggeration.

This is not "conspiracy theory". It's describing actual past behavior. I applaud the fact that it's now out there, but it could have and should have been done a decade ago, before we hired 2000 pilots who couldn't have had full knowledge of what they were getting themselves into. If knowing actual seniority progression is the final straw for many of them, who then leave when other airlines begin hiring, JetBlue will only have itself to blame for keeping critical facts to itself.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Suffering is good.

Life is difficult. Other than difficult what should I expect?

 

[PsubS]

BD, I know you attempted a great thing and tried to make it a reality a while back...and it is stupid for them to have squashed your project.

BUT...my argument remains the same. IF the company was trying to keep the "demographics" a secret for the past few years, why would they--with ZERO prompting from the pilot group--suddenly decide to allow it to happen?

I believe it was the corporate legal's agenda to not let it happen in the first place, though I don't know this for sure. Was it a conspiracy to keep those new hires in the dark about their upward mobility?

Duuuuuude. Come on!

 

[Blue Dude]

We'll have to disagree on this one. I don't think it was a dark corporate conspiracy, just the usual short-sighted idiocy. It's still gonna bite them in the a$$.

 

[Flyby1206]

Attrition has slowed to a stop and seniority/longevity costs keep rising. Maybe they wanted to light a fire under our a**es to get some people moving out the door instead of sticking around hoping for movement?

 

[MikeSF340]

I was hired at JetBlue less than a year ago. I had no inside information and knew no one at the company. You have to be a FRIGGEN IDIOT to not know that JetBlue is a very young pilot group. I didn't need a seniority list to tell me that. The company is 12 years old, what the hell do you expect. If this list is the catalyst to get you to leave I feel sorry for you. Don't embarrass yourself and admit you didn't know what the seniority situation was here when you got hired. It's your job to know.

 

[crash312]

BD, I know you attempted a great thing and tried to make it a reality a while back...and it is stupid for them to have squashed your project.

BUT...my argument remains the same. IF the company was trying to keep the "demographics" a secret for the past few years, why would they--with ZERO prompting from the pilot group--suddenly decide to allow it to happen?

I believe it was the corporate legal's agenda to not let it happen in the first place, though I don't know this for sure. Was it a conspiracy to keep those new hires in the dark about their upward mobility?

Duuuuuude. Come on!

Very good question. It was probably about to be made public anyway. It is called due diligence. Our friends at AMR and APA are the ones to thank.

 

[PsubS]

Ahhh....yet another conspiracy theory broaches the interwebz...

 

[Lake Alice]

I was hired at JetBlue less than a year ago. I had no inside information and knew no one at the company. You have to be a FRIGGEN IDIOT to not know that JetBlue is a very young pilot group. I didn't need a seniority list to tell me that. The company is 12 years old, what the hell do you expect. If this list is the catalyst to get you to leave I feel sorry for you. Don't embarrass yourself and admit you didn't know what the seniority situation was here when you got hired. It's your job to know.

I think most people hired didn't care as they were told upgrades were 2-3 years away. While this hasn't proven to be true the assumption was made based on projected growth and orders at the time. If Neeleman was still here we'd all be 330 captains by now and straining to hire enough F/O's. For the record a buddy who just went to recurrent was told we expected 150 in attrition this year but since no one was hiring no one left. Hence we're fat on F/O's.
We'll see next year if the majors start up again. All those retirements need to be replaced.