Bluetruthpilots

[PsubS]

Until these past few days, specific demographics were a well kept secret. You could get a feel for the age distribution of the pilot group by casual observation but there was no way to definitively determine where you were going to fall over time. Every other airline I know of distributes this information as a matter of course. JetBlue did not. And now I think we've found out why.

Look, I think the company has done many things that are not quite "above board." But examine this whole "they kept it secret from us..." line of thought.

IF they had kept this list "a secret" for almost 12 years, and IF they had wanted to keep the seniority list a continuing secret, why would they have given Chuck permission to create the function...and post it to the pilot page at this point? It would have been no big deal to squash the initiative, yet our management approved it.

Come on...there are bigger fish to fry than creating yet another conspiracy theory that diminishes your ability to get the important issues out front.

 

[Blue Dude]

PsubS, I'd agree with you if nobody had been trying to get this info out there for the last 12 years, but there have been numerous attempts, all of which were put down firmly. I have no idea why it's out there at this particular time, maybe because the app was created by an in-house project pilot rather than Joe Blow line pilot working on his own for free. Maybe hosting it inside stripped away the last of the ridiculous "legal" objections and they ran out of excuses. None of this redefines past behavior in a better light, and calling pilot retirement demographics a "well kept secret" is not exaggeration.

This is not "conspiracy theory". It's describing actual past behavior. I applaud the fact that it's now out there, but it could have and should have been done a decade ago, before we hired 2000 pilots who couldn't have had full knowledge of what they were getting themselves into. If knowing actual seniority progression is the final straw for many of them, who then leave when other airlines begin hiring, JetBlue will only have itself to blame for keeping critical facts to itself.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Suffering is good.

Life is difficult. Other than difficult what should I expect?

 

[PsubS]

BD, I know you attempted a great thing and tried to make it a reality a while back...and it is stupid for them to have squashed your project.

BUT...my argument remains the same. IF the company was trying to keep the "demographics" a secret for the past few years, why would they--with ZERO prompting from the pilot group--suddenly decide to allow it to happen?

I believe it was the corporate legal's agenda to not let it happen in the first place, though I don't know this for sure. Was it a conspiracy to keep those new hires in the dark about their upward mobility?

Duuuuuude. Come on!

 

[Blue Dude]

We'll have to disagree on this one. I don't think it was a dark corporate conspiracy, just the usual short-sighted idiocy. It's still gonna bite them in the a$$.

 

[Flyby1206]

Attrition has slowed to a stop and seniority/longevity costs keep rising. Maybe they wanted to light a fire under our a**es to get some people moving out the door instead of sticking around hoping for movement?

 

[MikeSF340]

I was hired at JetBlue less than a year ago. I had no inside information and knew no one at the company. You have to be a FRIGGEN IDIOT to not know that JetBlue is a very young pilot group. I didn't need a seniority list to tell me that. The company is 12 years old, what the hell do you expect. If this list is the catalyst to get you to leave I feel sorry for you. Don't embarrass yourself and admit you didn't know what the seniority situation was here when you got hired. It's your job to know.

 

[crash312]

BD, I know you attempted a great thing and tried to make it a reality a while back...and it is stupid for them to have squashed your project.

BUT...my argument remains the same. IF the company was trying to keep the "demographics" a secret for the past few years, why would they--with ZERO prompting from the pilot group--suddenly decide to allow it to happen?

I believe it was the corporate legal's agenda to not let it happen in the first place, though I don't know this for sure. Was it a conspiracy to keep those new hires in the dark about their upward mobility?

Duuuuuude. Come on!

Very good question. It was probably about to be made public anyway. It is called due diligence. Our friends at AMR and APA are the ones to thank.

 

[PsubS]

Ahhh....yet another conspiracy theory broaches the interwebz...

 

[Lake Alice]

I was hired at JetBlue less than a year ago. I had no inside information and knew no one at the company. You have to be a FRIGGEN IDIOT to not know that JetBlue is a very young pilot group. I didn't need a seniority list to tell me that. The company is 12 years old, what the hell do you expect. If this list is the catalyst to get you to leave I feel sorry for you. Don't embarrass yourself and admit you didn't know what the seniority situation was here when you got hired. It's your job to know.

I think most people hired didn't care as they were told upgrades were 2-3 years away. While this hasn't proven to be true the assumption was made based on projected growth and orders at the time. If Neeleman was still here we'd all be 330 captains by now and straining to hire enough F/O's. For the record a buddy who just went to recurrent was told we expected 150 in attrition this year but since no one was hiring no one left. Hence we're fat on F/O's.
We'll see next year if the majors start up again. All those retirements need to be replaced.

 

[Vingus]

I think most people hired didn't care as they were told upgrades were 2-3 years away. While this hasn't proven to be true the assumption was made based on projected growth and orders at the time. If Neeleman was still here we'd all be 330 captains by now and straining to hire enough F/O's. For the record a buddy who just went to recurrent was told we expected 150 in attrition this year but since no one was hiring no one left. Hence we're fat on F/O's.
We'll see next year if the majors start up again. All those retirements need to be replaced.

If Neelman had brought on 330s at the same pace as he was running before he left, we would be out of business by now.

 

[N311HK]

I think most people hired didn't care as they were told upgrades were 2-3 years away. While this hasn't proven to be true the assumption was made based on projected growth and orders at the time. If Neeleman was still here we'd all be 330 captains by now and straining to hire enough F/O's. For the record a buddy who just went to recurrent was told we expected 150 in attrition this year but since no one was hiring no one left. Hence we're fat on F/O's.
We'll see next year if the majors start up again. All those retirements need to be replaced.

As a 6 year FO, the logbook is updated and ready to go. As soon as the hiring windows open, I have no problem bailing. Not cause I'm bitter, but I do see the writing on the wall. I'm 33 and I'd be naive to think this place will be intact for the next 32 years.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

I think most people hired didn't care as they were told upgrades were 2-3 years away. While this hasn't proven to be true the assumption was made based on projected growth and orders at the time. If Neeleman was still here we'd all be 330 captains by now and straining to hire enough F/O's. For the record a buddy who just went to recurrent was told we expected 150 in attrition this year but since no one was hiring no one left. Hence we're fat on F/O's.
We'll see next year if the majors start up again. All those retirements need to be replaced.

Anyone can speculate. Although I agree that this pilot group is often misinformed, I have to say that no matter what I have ever heard from any airline management team, I always take it with a grain of salt. Pilots who stay at B6 are rolling the dice. Pilots who leave B6 are rolling the dice. If flying airplanes is your career, then you are rolling the dice.

What can we do? ORGANIZE and get a union on the property as soon as possible. It is the only way we will ever have a say in our careers. This is why all other major domestic carriers are unionized. We all pay auto insurance, home owners insurance, medical insurance, etc. Why not have career insurance? Whether you decide to stay or leave, please help contribute to the future of your fellow pilots by opening each other's eyes to the truth.......

Bluetruthpilots.com

 

[JetFumes]

As a 6 year FO, the logbook is updated and ready to go. As soon as the hiring windows open, I have no problem bailing. Not cause I'm bitter, but I do see the writing on the wall. I'm 33 and I'd be naive to think this place will be intact for the next 32 years.

Just curious what you think your breakeven point is going to be. You could be a captain now, so why leave? Bigger airlines that are too big to fail coupled with rapid seniority change is a big carrot, I know, so then is it a lack of faith in the company to survive, or that you think we'll get screwed in the integration/merger scenario?

 

[Smarta$$]

Just curious what you think your breakeven point is going to be. You could be a captain now, so why leave? Bigger airlines that are too big to fail coupled with rapid seniority change is a big carrot, I know, so then is it a lack of faith in the company to survive, or that you think we'll get screwed in the integration/merger scenario?

I prefer to encourage those think think the grass is greener to go get the job they really want. Helps me as more junior pilot, and they get what they think they want. Win-Win!

 

[N311HK]

Just curious what you think your breakeven point is going to be. You could be a captain now, so why leave? Bigger airlines that are too big to fail coupled with rapid seniority change is a big carrot, I know, so then is it a lack of faith in the company to survive, or that you think we'll get screwed in the integration/merger scenario?

It's a little bit of everything. I like B6 and truly want to see it succeed. Being 33 if I were gonna make the leap I wanna do it now while I can. No family, no debt, so the jump could be easy. Just the shear numbers on retirements I would have a chance to finish very high somewhere else. But also I don't have faith in this company. There have been too many screw ups too soon to up my faith. There is no accountability here. This place is run by a bunch of rookies. We use "Hope" too much here. And like poker, stock market, or anything in life Hope is not part of the equation. But make no mistake about it, I'm not afraid of a merger. I'm more afraid of the vision of Jetblue. Seeing you are a former J41 guy too, I learned a lot of valuable lessons early on in my career.

 

[linepilot]

It's a little bit of everything. I like B6 and truly want to see it succeed. Being 33 if I were gonna make the leap I wanna do it now while I can. No family, no debt, so the jump could be easy. Just the shear numbers on retirements I would have a chance to finish very high somewhere else. But also I don't have faith in this company. There have been too many screw ups too soon to up my faith. There is no accountability here. This place is run by a bunch of rookies. We use "Hope" too much here. And like poker, stock market, or anything in life Hope is not part of the equation. But make no mistake about it, I'm not afraid of a merger. I'm more afraid of the vision of Jetblue. Seeing you are a former J41 guy too, I learned a lot of valuable lessons early on in my career.

Not to mention the fact that they lie CONSTANTLY.

 

[N311HK]

Not to mention the fact that they lie CONSTANTLY.

It's a company, it's management. I accept that. That's the way it will always be. Whenever there is money involved, there will always be lies. But I agree, they do fib too much

 

[linepilot]

It's a company, it's management. I accept that. That's the way it will always be. Whenever there is money involved, there will always be lies. But I agree, they do fib too much

I will never accept that.

 

[Smarta$$]

I will never accept that.

In response to them lying constantly:


Really dude? This surprises you somehow? Its corporate America. Period. Show any executive team that doesn't lie...