Bluetruthpilots

[CapnVegetto]

CV let me first say I know you are pro-union.

In the end there is no guarantee with anything. My contention is with ALPA both sides have to abide by ALPA policy. If not both sides have the right to mediation and binding arbitration. In the airways case the MEC was specifically told DOH would not be awarded. They proceeded and and DOH was not awarded. Had JetBlue been AW we would have received a very favorable seniority integration. If DAL buys us as another ALPA carrier I am willing to take my chances with mediation and arbitration. Based on ALPA policy alone we would not be stapled. Fine with me.
With the bluebells DR version we won't even be stapled. OUr PEA will never supersede or override a CBA. No matter wether you believe the Dave will take care of you or not we are absolutely powerless and ultimately screwed and essentially out of a job.
I'm not fear mongering. When 4 different legal firms give the same opinion regarding our PEA's it's pretty sobering.
With an in house we have a shot but no war chest to pay for it.
ALPA will at least give us the opportunity to mediate, arbitrate and negotiate.

I guess you just have more faith than I do. I don't believe for one damn second that DL's MEC would want to kumbaya with us. I believe what you heard from them was nothing more than Dave Barger-esque lip service, and as the US Air guys proved, ALPA policy really doesn't mean jack squat. There is always a way around it if you have the resources and the will, of which the DL has both.

It's still better than what we've got, but I just don't buy that little B6 will get a good integration, union or not, with any of the big boys. There is too much history that says otherwise.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Goddammit, I wish people would learn to F-ING READ.

I AM PRO UNION. I'm so sick of repeating it

A union result will undoubtedly be better than a non-union one. I DO NOT DISPUTE THIS.

What I am saying is that expecting anything other than a staple or near staple if a large legacy buys us is dreaming. That's it.

I also say I would be fine with that.

Point taken. You may want to stay away from sharp objects when posting.......just a suggestion.

 

[Smarta$$]

I guess you just have more faith than I do. I don't believe for one damn second that DL's MEC would want to kumbaya with us. I believe what you heard from them was nothing more than Dave Barger-esque lip service, and as the US Air guys proved, ALPA policy really doesn't mean jack squat. There is always a way around it if you have the resources and the will, of which the DL has both.

It's still better than what we've got, but I just don't buy that little B6 will get a good integration, union or not, with any of the big boys. There is too much history that says otherwise.

One point you are not acknowledging is the independent mediation and arbitration. DAL won't get to play steamroller entirely. Just mostly.

 

[Smarta$$]

For lake Alice, I can't conceive of a likely scenario where we would not at least have a staple. We may be stapled, but we won't be unemployed.

 

[Lake Alice]

For lake Alice, I can't conceive of a likely scenario where we would not at least have a staple. We may be stapled, but we won't be unemployed.

True dat! And the benefits and retirement will be better if it was DAL. Anyhow, back to my beloved DR.

 

[Smarta$$]

I would take DL staple tomorrow ... but I live in a DL hub...

Not that I don't like it here. I do.

 

[$$$4nothin]

For lake Alice, I can't conceive of a likely scenario where we would not at least have a staple. We may be stapled, but we won't be unemployed.

Man I really hope you are right. However if mother D buys us they will have to give up ALOT of slots in JFK. If we can make it another 24 months we might keep our job just due to the Delta retirements. However if they buy us in the near future I could easily see them getting rid of alot of us. Lets just hope Dave at least negotiates some recall rights for us while he negotiates his millions. In the mean time I am only 6 months from being debt free just in case.

 

[Flyby1206]

Man I really hope you are right. However if mother D buys us they will have to give up ALOT of slots in JFK.

+1

I dont want to turn this into another B6 merger thread, but DAL would have to give up so many slots in JFK that it wouldnt make a merger worthwhile in my opinion. Those slots would either go to AMR, or to a VX/SWA type carrier. The end result would be removing jetblue from JFK, only to strengthen AMR and allow more LCCs into the arena.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

No mergers until the election cycle is complete. The DOJ will change if M.R. gets in the White House. Mergers will face less pressure. Obama can not allow more jobs to be lost right now. So forget any merger. We are safe I would say until 2013. By then who knows the Euro and entire global financial system could be kaput. Rendering all this talk as moot.

 

[$$$4nothin]

We are safe I would say until 2013. By then who knows the Euro and entire global financial system could be kaput. Rendering all this talk as moot.

Well I guess when that happens I am driving to the marina, "borrowing" a 40 foot sail boat, and sailing to the Grenadines to dissapear.

 

[Lake Alice]

Man I really hope you are right. However if mother D buys us they will have to give up ALOT of slots in JFK. If we can make it another 24 months we might keep our job just due to the Delta retirements. However if they buy us in the near future I could easily see them getting rid of alot of us. Lets just hope Dave at least negotiates some recall rights for us while he negotiates his millions. In the mean time I am only 6 months from being debt free just in case.

Dave negotiate recall rights for us? Please tell me your joking. Your PEA makes it very clear what Dave intends to do.

 

[linepilot]

...and The Dave and his attorneys make it clear what they think of the enforceability of your PEA every time they face the 3A Arbitrator.

 

[PCL_128]

There is always a way around it if you have the resources and the will

No, there really isn't. The USAirways pilots haven't gotten around anything. They have merely delayed the inevitable. Despite what they want to believe, binding really does mean binding. The Nicolau award is the list, whether they like it or not. If Parker ends up buying AMR like he wants to, the new arbitrator will use the Nic award as his starting point for integrating the USAirways pilots with the American pilots. No matter how loudly USAPA cries, and how hard they pound their fists on the table, the arbitrator's award under ALPA Merger Policy will always stand.

 

[Flyer1015]

No, there really isn't. The USAirways pilots haven't gotten around anything. They have merely delayed the inevitable. Despite what they want to believe, binding really does mean binding. The Nicolau award is the list, whether they like it or not. If Parker ends up buying AMR like he wants to, the new arbitrator will use the Nic award as his starting point for integrating the USAirways pilots with the American pilots. No matter how loudly USAPA cries, and how hard they pound their fists on the table, the arbitrator's award under ALPA Merger Policy will always stand.

How has it stood for the last 5 yrs?

 

[CapnVegetto]

How has it stood for the last 5 yrs?

Precisely. There is ALWAYS a way around, whether he wants to admit or not. USAir proves it.