Bluetruthpilots

[Ski-N-Fly]

LOL

you mean like it did with the US Air guys?

People look put for their own interests. They could give a crap about ALPA.

How do you think they would have fared without the ability to collectively act? The US Air pilots have themselves to blame. Look at Delta and NWA......an entirely different outcome. I have yet to run across any major airline pilot (outside of B6) who would rather have their own management team decide their fate rather than negotiate their own futures under the support of THEIR own union, whether it be ALPA, Teamsters, or Mickey Mouse.

Every unionized pilot group is responsible for making their own decisions as a collective group. ALPA is merely a toolbox of resources for each pilot group to use. The final word comes from each pilot group as a whole.......not ALPA. Yet many seem to use ALPA as a scapegoat.

 

[CapnVegetto]

actually an arbitrator, as the policy dictates, made the decision. the process worked. the us air pilots didn't like the result.

Precisely my point.

Who's to say something like that wouldn't happen in a B6 merger? Or perhaps something we haven't even thought of? The only point I am making is that lip service from Delta's MEC and all the ALPA rules really don't mean jack squat. A group will do what it wants, despite ALPA's on paper merger policy, and there is a better than 50/50 chance that the end result will be a far cry from what you are saying.

At least a union would guarantee a staple, I'll give you that. But to think we're going to get a good deal if we get acquired by a large carrier with huge resources is is just dreaming in my opinion.

 

[CapnVegetto]

How do you think they would have fared without the ability to collectively act? The US Air pilots have themselves to blame. Look at Delta and NWA......an entirely different outcome. I have yet to run across any major airline pilot (outside of B6) who would rather have their own management team decide their fate rather than negotiate their own futures under the support of THEIR own union, whether it be ALPA, Teamsters, or Mickey Mouse.

Every unionized pilot group is responsible for making their own decisions as a collective group. ALPA is merely a toolbox of resources for each pilot group to use. The final word comes from each pilot group as a whole.......not ALPA. Yet many seem to use ALPA as a scapegoat.

Goddammit, I wish people would learn to F-ING READ.

I AM PRO UNION. I'm so sick of repeating it

A union result will undoubtedly be better than a non-union one. I DO NOT DISPUTE THIS.

What I am saying is that expecting anything other than a staple or near staple if a large legacy buys us is dreaming. That's it.

I also say I would be fine with that.

 

[linepilot]

I'm praying for preferential interviews or worse, because the jetblew interview was taylored for dorks and bum kissers, and administered by flight attendants.

Nothing would make me happier than to see this seniority list discarded by the real industry.:laugh:

Bunch of fricking losers.

 

[Lake Alice]

Precisely my point.

Who's to say something like that wouldn't happen in a B6 merger? Or perhaps something we haven't even thought of? The only point I am making is that lip service from Delta's MEC and all the ALPA rules really don't mean jack squat. A group will do what it wants, despite ALPA's on paper merger policy, and there is a better than 50/50 chance that the end result will be a far cry from what you are saying.

At least a union would guarantee a staple, I'll give you that. But to think we're going to get a good deal if we get acquired by a large carrier with huge resources is is just dreaming in my opinion.

CV let me first say I know you are pro-union.

In the end there is no guarantee with anything. My contention is with ALPA both sides have to abide by ALPA policy. If not both sides have the right to mediation and binding arbitration. In the airways case the MEC was specifically told DOH would not be awarded. They proceeded and and DOH was not awarded. Had JetBlue been AW we would have received a very favorable seniority integration. If DAL buys us as another ALPA carrier I am willing to take my chances with mediation and arbitration. Based on ALPA policy alone we would not be stapled. Fine with me.
With the bluebells DR version we won't even be stapled. OUr PEA will never supersede or override a CBA. No matter wether you believe the Dave will take care of you or not we are absolutely powerless and ultimately screwed and essentially out of a job.
I'm not fear mongering. When 4 different legal firms give the same opinion regarding our PEA's it's pretty sobering.
With an in house we have a shot but no war chest to pay for it.
ALPA will at least give us the opportunity to mediate, arbitrate and negotiate.

 

[CapnVegetto]

CV let me first say I know you are pro-union.

In the end there is no guarantee with anything. My contention is with ALPA both sides have to abide by ALPA policy. If not both sides have the right to mediation and binding arbitration. In the airways case the MEC was specifically told DOH would not be awarded. They proceeded and and DOH was not awarded. Had JetBlue been AW we would have received a very favorable seniority integration. If DAL buys us as another ALPA carrier I am willing to take my chances with mediation and arbitration. Based on ALPA policy alone we would not be stapled. Fine with me.
With the bluebells DR version we won't even be stapled. OUr PEA will never supersede or override a CBA. No matter wether you believe the Dave will take care of you or not we are absolutely powerless and ultimately screwed and essentially out of a job.
I'm not fear mongering. When 4 different legal firms give the same opinion regarding our PEA's it's pretty sobering.
With an in house we have a shot but no war chest to pay for it.
ALPA will at least give us the opportunity to mediate, arbitrate and negotiate.

I guess you just have more faith than I do. I don't believe for one damn second that DL's MEC would want to kumbaya with us. I believe what you heard from them was nothing more than Dave Barger-esque lip service, and as the US Air guys proved, ALPA policy really doesn't mean jack squat. There is always a way around it if you have the resources and the will, of which the DL has both.

It's still better than what we've got, but I just don't buy that little B6 will get a good integration, union or not, with any of the big boys. There is too much history that says otherwise.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Goddammit, I wish people would learn to F-ING READ.

I AM PRO UNION. I'm so sick of repeating it

A union result will undoubtedly be better than a non-union one. I DO NOT DISPUTE THIS.

What I am saying is that expecting anything other than a staple or near staple if a large legacy buys us is dreaming. That's it.

I also say I would be fine with that.

Point taken. You may want to stay away from sharp objects when posting.......just a suggestion.

 

[Smarta$$]

I guess you just have more faith than I do. I don't believe for one damn second that DL's MEC would want to kumbaya with us. I believe what you heard from them was nothing more than Dave Barger-esque lip service, and as the US Air guys proved, ALPA policy really doesn't mean jack squat. There is always a way around it if you have the resources and the will, of which the DL has both.

It's still better than what we've got, but I just don't buy that little B6 will get a good integration, union or not, with any of the big boys. There is too much history that says otherwise.

One point you are not acknowledging is the independent mediation and arbitration. DAL won't get to play steamroller entirely. Just mostly.

 

[Smarta$$]

For lake Alice, I can't conceive of a likely scenario where we would not at least have a staple. We may be stapled, but we won't be unemployed.

 

[Lake Alice]

For lake Alice, I can't conceive of a likely scenario where we would not at least have a staple. We may be stapled, but we won't be unemployed.

True dat! And the benefits and retirement will be better if it was DAL. Anyhow, back to my beloved DR.