binding arbitration for Delta

[FlyinPiker]

OR we hold the line, use these planes until a replacement is found instead of giving the scope farm away like you did with that flying. It appears currently that is the plan and lets hope so. You can try to justify all day long that you guys "cleaned house" but in reality you gave away all that flying. Lets NOT do that this time, mmmkkkkayyy!!

Times are different now and bigger planes are needed which is what puts us collectively in a better position to hold onto this flying.

And they HAD even more 9's than they have now. Compass...Mesaba 900's (who cares if you can flow down to lower paying jobs..they were still given away). That wasn't giving away flying?

 

[Superpilot92]

And they HAD even more 9's than they have now. Compass...Mesaba 900's (who cares if you can flow down to lower paying jobs..they were still given away). That wasn't giving away flying?

I dont argue that point. NWA gave away flying to but scope WAS kept to protect some of that flying unlike DAL. All the flying should have been kept by both sides. Giving up scope only outsources our jobs. Scope at NWA prevents ALL DC9s from being parked and replaced by RJ's which was my point. Lets hope thats still the case.

 

[FlyinPiker]

I dont argue that point. NWA gave away flying to but scope WAS kept to protect some of that flying unlike DAL. All the flying should have been kept by both sides. Giving up scope only outsources our jobs. Scope at NWA prevents ALL DC9s from being parked and replaced by RJ's which was my point. Lets hope thats still the case.

When scope first started being ate away at DAL the prevailing attitude of the guys at the a lot of major's seemed to be "we didn't want to fly those little things around anyway...as long as the big jets keep comin who cares!

When the NWA deal went down it was pretty much spelled out in black and white these were replacement jets.

I'm not justifying anything here because they both did major damage. Kudos to NWA for adding limits and restrictions but in the end these were all mainline jobs that were handed over to management.

Seems like we are slowly learning from each others mistakes.

 

[Muskycat]

OR we hold the line, use these planes until a replacement is found instead of giving the scope farm away like you did with that flying. It appears currently that is the plan and lets hope so. You can try to justify all day long that you guys "cleaned house" but in reality you gave away all that flying. Lets NOT do that this time, mmmkkkkayyy!!

Times are different now and bigger planes are needed which is what puts us collectively in a better position to hold onto this flying.

Yeah, we suck on scope. Not sure any major has a good scope clause.

Not sure where you think your scope is much better. Could you please explain Compass?? Enlighten me....

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah, we suck on scope. Not sure any major has a good scope clause.

Not sure where you think your scope is much better. Could you please explain Compass?? Enlighten me....

In short our remaining DC9s cant be parked without first getting rid of 70 seaters first. Thats the jist of our scope. Compass and Mesaba were allowed "bigger" RJ's because of bankruptcy caused scope relief but it was contingent on the mainline fleet size and the flowthrough/back was designed to Heavily benefit the NWA pilots SHOULD furloughs ever take place. So while IMHO the planes should have never been allowed off the Mainline ticket they were but in a way that flying was protected in a way which wasnt a complete giveaway. Hope that helps and maybe others can add in further.

 

[Superpilot92]

When scope first started being ate away at DAL the prevailing attitude of the guys at the a lot of major's seemed to be "we didn't want to fly those little things around anyway...as long as the big jets keep comin who cares!

When the NWA deal went down it was pretty much spelled out in black and white these were replacement jets.

I'm not justifying anything here because they both did major damage. Kudos to NWA for adding limits and restrictions but in the end these were all mainline jobs that were handed over to management.

Seems like we are slowly learning from each others mistakes.

I agree and i hope you're right!!

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

NWA will furlough prior to the integration from parked DC-9s and 747-200s. Guess what part of a joint list those bubbas will end up after arbitration?

 

[JAM-BRO]

A "DC9 refugee" is a DAL junior pilot jargon(~~~^~~~) for " I am all for the good things of this merger but not the bad."

The flow down to Mesaba and Compass are in place in the new JPWA. There is also a no-furlough clause.

What exactly is a DC-9 refugee?

 

[Superpilot92]

NWA will furlough prior to the integration from parked DC-9s and 747-200s. Guess what part of a joint list those bubbas will end up after arbitration?

Please use your crystal ball for constructive things like, oh i dont know, the lottery...

Thanks for your contribution to the discussin

 

[FDJ2]

In short our remaining DC9s cant be parked without first getting rid of 70 seaters first. Thats the jist of our scope.

If NWA management parked all of the DC-9s today, how many 70 and 76 seat aircraft would get parked? How many 70-76 seaters could they operate?

 

[Schwanker]

A "DC9 refugee" is a DAL junior pilot jargon(~~~^~~~) for " I am all for the good things of this merger but not the bad."

The flow down to Mesaba and Compass are in place in the new JPWA. There is also a no-furlough clause.

Isn't it funny how they like to speculate as fact the -9s are being parked even though all indications point otherwise? We might as well speculate how all those really old/inefficient 767s will get parked. It has just as much credibility.

Schwanker

 

[~~~^~~~]

Schwanker:

I'm just doing my own reasoning based on numbers. In the past the numbers have driven the eventual outcomes (despite political window dressing to the contrary). When an airplane has 40% higher CASM than other surplus airframes in the fleet it appears to me the answer is obvious.... But, you are right, could be the 767's. They are marginally less productive than A330's. But Delta's dumping a billion into refitting the interiors and buying winglet mods. Seems they would cancel that instead of spending money to make them more efficient. It will take several years to make back the cost through fuel savings.

I love your DC9's and hope they stay on the property for eternity. I'd bid the left seat when I could. But, it would be prudent to be prepared for their phase out.

We don't expect V1 cuts on line do we? However, we are prepared to deal with them. We should have a plan, through scope, commuter policies, and furlough methodology to deal with the inevitable fleet rationalization that will happen.

When our airline furloughs, this SLI will be ugly because we will literally be assigning pink slips. It would be better if we design our contract to make this as painless as possible.

The Delta pilots are convinced that NWA's fleet brings furloughs to the table. In my mind it is an open debate. If Delta's PWA requires greater staffing, it would be my guess that the DAL staffing model carried forward into the JPWA, but I don't know.

 

[Schwanker]

Schwanker:

I'm just doing my own reasoning based on numbers. In the past the numbers have driven the eventual outcomes (despite political window dressing to the contrary). When an airplane has 40% higher CASM than other surplus airframes in the fleet it appears to me the answer is obvious.... But, you are right, could be the 767's. They are marginally less productive than A330's. But Delta's dumping a billion into refitting the interiors and buying winglet mods. Seems they would cancel that instead of spending money to make them more efficient. It will take several years to make back the cost through fuel savings.

Hey,
I'm not even suggesting the parking of 767s. The point is it has just as much credibility as those speculating (or stating as fact) the DC-9 fleet will disappear overnight, even though all indications say different.

Schwanker

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

This seniority arbitration is a no-win situation.

No matter who the "winner" is, the resentment and bitterness of the losers will be reminiscent of the USAirways debacle.

Anyone who disagrees want to place a bet?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well Frank, it is very interesting. Thought you would love to watch ALPA negotiate for ALPA.

The reason for doing the JPWA agreement first is to obligate the membership to accept a contract regardless of the SLI outcome. This helps prevent a US Air style decertification drive to try to escape a bad SLI.

The secret the easties discovered is that it is easier to vote out the entire union, than to vote out a Rep, or change an MEC. As a union buster, you should appreciate what you see going on around you.

IMHO we'd be better off getting scope so regular folks understand that there is an advantage to being in a union.