binding arbitration for Delta

[Schwanker]

A "DC9 refugee" is a DAL junior pilot jargon(~~~^~~~) for " I am all for the good things of this merger but not the bad."

The flow down to Mesaba and Compass are in place in the new JPWA. There is also a no-furlough clause.

Isn't it funny how they like to speculate as fact the -9s are being parked even though all indications point otherwise? We might as well speculate how all those really old/inefficient 767s will get parked. It has just as much credibility.

Schwanker

 

[~~~^~~~]

Schwanker:

I'm just doing my own reasoning based on numbers. In the past the numbers have driven the eventual outcomes (despite political window dressing to the contrary). When an airplane has 40% higher CASM than other surplus airframes in the fleet it appears to me the answer is obvious.... But, you are right, could be the 767's. They are marginally less productive than A330's. But Delta's dumping a billion into refitting the interiors and buying winglet mods. Seems they would cancel that instead of spending money to make them more efficient. It will take several years to make back the cost through fuel savings.

I love your DC9's and hope they stay on the property for eternity. I'd bid the left seat when I could. But, it would be prudent to be prepared for their phase out.

We don't expect V1 cuts on line do we? However, we are prepared to deal with them. We should have a plan, through scope, commuter policies, and furlough methodology to deal with the inevitable fleet rationalization that will happen.

When our airline furloughs, this SLI will be ugly because we will literally be assigning pink slips. It would be better if we design our contract to make this as painless as possible.

The Delta pilots are convinced that NWA's fleet brings furloughs to the table. In my mind it is an open debate. If Delta's PWA requires greater staffing, it would be my guess that the DAL staffing model carried forward into the JPWA, but I don't know.

 

[Schwanker]

Schwanker:

I'm just doing my own reasoning based on numbers. In the past the numbers have driven the eventual outcomes (despite political window dressing to the contrary). When an airplane has 40% higher CASM than other surplus airframes in the fleet it appears to me the answer is obvious.... But, you are right, could be the 767's. They are marginally less productive than A330's. But Delta's dumping a billion into refitting the interiors and buying winglet mods. Seems they would cancel that instead of spending money to make them more efficient. It will take several years to make back the cost through fuel savings.

Hey,
I'm not even suggesting the parking of 767s. The point is it has just as much credibility as those speculating (or stating as fact) the DC-9 fleet will disappear overnight, even though all indications say different.

Schwanker

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

This seniority arbitration is a no-win situation.

No matter who the "winner" is, the resentment and bitterness of the losers will be reminiscent of the USAirways debacle.

Anyone who disagrees want to place a bet?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well Frank, it is very interesting. Thought you would love to watch ALPA negotiate for ALPA.

The reason for doing the JPWA agreement first is to obligate the membership to accept a contract regardless of the SLI outcome. This helps prevent a US Air style decertification drive to try to escape a bad SLI.

The secret the easties discovered is that it is easier to vote out the entire union, than to vote out a Rep, or change an MEC. As a union buster, you should appreciate what you see going on around you.

IMHO we'd be better off getting scope so regular folks understand that there is an advantage to being in a union.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well Frank, it is very interesting. Thought you would love to watch ALPA negotiate for ALPA.

The reason for doing the JPWA agreement first is to obligate the membership to accept a contract regardless of the SLI outcome. This helps prevent a US Air style decertification drive to try to escape a bad SLI.

The secret the easties discovered is that it is easier to vote out the entire union, than to vote out a Rep, or change an MEC. As a union buster, you should appreciate what you see going on around you.

IMHO we'd be better off getting scope so regular folks understand that there is an advantage to being in a union.

Fins...ALPA is the best union buster management could ever want.....We have designed a system that forces us to fight each other.....

 

[Superpilot92]

Fins...ALPA is the best union buster management could ever want.....We have designed a system that forces us to fight each other.....

The two sides seem to have worked together this round to knock out the JPWA, did they not? I agree in some ways we can be pinned against one another at times but unions are a necessary evil in this industry.

So far the NWA/DAL MECs have far outpaced the Usair mess. Lets hope it keeps up!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

The two sides seem to have worked together this round to knock out the JPWA, did they not? I agree in some ways we can be pinned against one another at times but unions are a necessary evil in this industry.

So far the NWA/DAL MECs have far outpaced the Usair mess. Lets hope it keeps up!!

....get back to me after the new list is negotiated and the furloughs start....

 

[FBN0223]

I've heard most of SLI has been negotiated and an arbitrator will merely be deciding the final "tweaking" of the list.

 

[Superpilot92]

....get back to me after the new list is negotiated and the furloughs start....

Sure champ!! The two sides worked together to get this TA ratified and you cant stand that your Union Bashing just doesnt hold water in this situation. Are you nervous the two sides might have worked together to tighten up section 1 without your "approval"? Get back to me on that,...

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sure champ!! The two sides worked together to get this TA ratified and you cant stand that your Union Bashing just doesnt hold water in this situation. Are you nervous the two sides might have worked together to tighten up section 1 without your "approval"? Get back to me on that,...

You didn't do anything with section 1.....

Reading the ALPA boards....it doesn't sound like the Delta folks are too happy about the TA...

Furloughs are coming....This list integration with furloughs is going to be ugly....

The chickens keep coming home to roost....

 

[Superpilot92]

You didn't do anything with section 1.....

Reading the ALPA boards....it doesn't sound like the Delta folks are too happy about the TA...

Furloughs are coming....This list integration with furloughs is going to be ugly....

The chickens keep coming home to roost....

Do tell where you saw the actual TA? or is this another one of your baseless assumptions? Its so cute how you worry about us but please go use your "crystal ball" for something useful and worry about yourself. Thanks bud

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

So nobody disagrees with me. Interesting.

How about double or nothing. Anyone want to bet that there will not be furloughs? Taking it a step further, which work group will bear the brunt of the furloughs?

 

[Speedbird34]

So nobody disagrees with me. Interesting.

How about double or nothing. Anyone want to bet that there will not be furloughs? Taking it a step further, which work group will bear the brunt of the furloughs?

You have a point! Not placing that bet. You have unfair odds!:smash:

 

[Flyer1015]

You made your choice to stay where you are at. being at a regional will always mean you are a Contract thus you arent in the mix. If you think its a problem you could have always moved on and been part of the "solution" but instead you choose to just complain about the injustices you face on via FI. Now carry on with you Union bashing were waiting.

If THAT'S your view of us regional pilots, then don't come looking for left seats at our airlines when the furloughs happen.

Just like you said, "You made your choice to stay where you are at" , I say to you, "You made your choice to move on to where you are at."

 

[DTW320]

If THAT'S your view of us regional pilots, then don't come looking for left seats at our airlines when the furloughs happen.

Just like you said, "You made your choice to stay where you are at" , I say to you, "You made your choice to move on to where you are at."

Sorry....the Compass flowback provisions made the cut in the new TA and will remain. Thanks for your concern....

 

[Flyer1015]

Ok Joe...I'll Bite....

and WHY should THEY even be at THAT table??? inquiring minds and all....

I'll bite too.... the fact that some regional carriers [Compass and Mesaba] have flowthrough and flowback agreements, and that affects them with the new mega "DELTA." At the very least, Compass and Mesaba should have been invited to that table.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes, DTW320 pilot, see above post.

 

[DTW320]

Yes, DTW320 pilot, see above post.

Hey, just responding to your unenforcable threat of denying your left seat to NWA/DAL furloughees. Unfortunate or not, you don't get to make those decisions, or at least the Compass pilots don't....you can negotiate whatever prohibitions you can at your regional. Remember also, every Compass pilot that signed up knew the deal with the flowback provisions because they existed from day 1.

 

[Flyer1015]

Hey, just responding to your unenforcable threat of denying your left seat to NWA/DAL furloughees. Unfortunate or not, you don't get to make those decisions, or at least the Compass pilots don't....you can negotiate whatever prohibitions you can at your regional. Remember also, every Compass pilot that signed up knew the deal with the flowback provisions because they existed from day 1.

I'm at Pinnacle, not Compass. I still think CP and XJ should have been there, because of the flowthrough/flowback issues.