binding arbitration for Delta

[~~~^~~~]

Scope IN RJs

flow agreements work both ways, in good times they are good for all in bad times they are good for mainline. Thats just how it works.

Super92:

Flows don't work well. Consider how Nicolau's seniority ruling effected the US Air pilots who flowed to Mid Atlantic.

Compass is a virtual copy of Mid Atlantic's bilateral flow.

Pilot Disadvantages from a flow:

• Pilots sold a promise now that the Company might not keep in the future.
• Usually pay rates are lower to offset the mainline career promise (pay now for something I might not get)
• Pilot longevity is destroyed as the pilot crosses certificates
• ALPA has a conflicting duty of representation
• Pilots separated by an arbitrary line which can effect seniority integration and recall rights **

Consider the alternative, One list

• Pilots know they have a number
• Pilots know their longevity
• There are no "rights" that give rise to an RJDC type lawsuit - everyone is treated equally by their union
• Scope includes pilots on the list. Company can buy what they want and they WILL BE FLOWN BY MAINLINE PILOTS
• Mainline flying grows
• Mainline can buy the best airplane for the market and use it to kick the competition's butt. Why do you think Delta has so many CRJ200's? It wasn't because they were the best choice.

PCL, do you disagree Sir?

** Lets say you and I flow to Compass. The Delta buys Hawaiian. Our seniority would be an afterthought to Hawaiian's 717 drivers. Heck, we are not even on the "property" at Compass. But, you can hold 320, or 757, now. Fair?

One list is a whole lot cleaner. If you don't know who's been winning the scope war, look out the window.

Scope out RJ's and I would never admit it, but we want the same thing. The only way we are going to win is to scope them IN!

 

[PCL_128]

Super92:

Flows don't work well. Consider how Nicolau's seniority ruling effected the US Air pilots who flowed to Mid Atlantic.

Compass is a virtual copy of Mid Atlantic's bilateral flow.

Pilot Disadvantages from a flow:

• Pilots sold a promise now that the Company might not keep in the future.
• Usually pay rates are lower to offset the mainline career promise (pay now for something I might not get)
• Pilot longevity is destroyed as the pilot crosses certificates
• ALPA has a conflicting duty of representation

Consider the alternative, One list

• Pilots know they have a number
• Pilots know their longevity
• There are no "rights" that give rise to an RJDC type lawsuit - everyone is treated equally by their union
• Scope includes pilots on the list. Company can buy what they want and they WILL BE FLOWN BY MAINLINE PILOTS
• Mainline flying grows

PCL, do you disagree Sir?

The only point I would disagree with is your assertion that ALPA has a conflict of interest with a flow-through setup. I see no conflict of interest. But I do agree that one-list proposals are far superior to any sort of flow-through and should be the ultimate goal of every mainline and regional MEC. My opinion has always been that flow-throughs are a baby step on the way to making bigger strides towards a single list.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I do agree that one-list proposals are far superior to any sort of flow-through and should be the ultimate goal of every mainline and regional MEC. My opinion has always been that flow-throughs are a baby step on the way to making bigger strides towards a single list.

And we agree, it is a step in the right direction.

But, take the Delta pilot, who flowed to Compass, then merged with Hawaiian. (if you look at the merger documents that is a very likely scenario) ALPA would tie itself up in knots with lawsuits flying every direction... exactly like Mid Atlantic and US Air. The smart move is to staple Compass now.

The RJDC's attorney - Mike Haber's first clients in the US Air debacle were pilots wrapped up in the US Air flow mechanism. It has happened and will happen again, unless we change procedures. That is where the snowball started.

 

[PCL_128]

The smart move is to staple Compass now.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it appears that your MECs weren't interested in such a scenario. "Those that fail to learn from history...."

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't know... SLI is not done.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm curious why you believe that DAL will be buying another airline. Have there been any comments by management to lead you to believe this? First thing I've heard of it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL_128:

Delta's done bunches of mergers in the past. Pan Am, Western, Northeast, C&S and Northwest. Sure there will be another.

Remember Delta's goals with this merger. I keep saying too much, but there have been some pretty big hints dropped on this board.

Regardless, we pilots should have a plan. One list would be a good plan.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

......
Yes, there are some good possibilities for that and more down the road. Read the section one of the JPWA. There are some provisions in there that make a man wonder....

 

[hockeypilot44]

PCL_128:

Delta's done bunches of mergers in the past. Pan Am, Western, Northeast, C&S and Northwest. Sure there will be another.

Remember Delta's goals with this merger. I keep saying too much, but there have been some pretty big hints dropped on this board.

Regardless, we pilots should have a plan. One list would be a good plan.

I'm guessing you are referring to Midwest. I have heard the same rumors.

 

[Flyer1015]

They ignored it because the contractual language allowed them to. It specifically allows AMR to withhold class dates from these pilots due to "operational necessity." Like I said, negotiate bad contract language, live with the results.

Now you're talking like management. Nobody at Eagle could have foreseen the unfairness of flowthroughs, and the tremendous amounts of flowbacks. If binding arbitration is shomehow a 'victory' , then I'm gonna have to side with JoeMerchant on this topic.

*We still friends though.