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Big 3 Bailout dead in Senate. GOP wanted steep UAW wage cuts, that was dealbreaker

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So....you wanted the measure to be passed....to give billions to Ford which has lost an average of $0.42 per share per quarter for the last 19 quarters....or to GM which has lost an average of over $9.00 per share per quarter for the last 19 quarters....or to Daimler (Chrysler) a huge German-owned conglomerate? The death of that measure is a good thing. In bankruptcy, they can develop a workable business plan instead of continuing with an unworkable plan.
 
Rental car this week: Ford Focus with 2400 miles, first the tire goes flat (alright, I'll give that one a free pass, despite the weak-looking rims), then the engine blows up (oil smoke so thick I couldn't see through it in the rear-view mirror). Swap into a Chrystler with 12,000 miles, engine light on, weird noises while driving down the road, can't see blindspots, etc.

This is the JUNK that the Big 3 are producing...and we should subsidize this?

And I'm from Detroit.
 
Oh hey look, I agree with both you guys. I drive a Nissan. But AIG just got 150B+, no questions asked; now they're giving out $90,400 to 4M in bonus payments to 168 people and keeping their flight department. The big 3 want 25B in loans and the GOP tells them to fuk off? Where is their morality with the AIG issues. Where is it? I've not heard one of them say sh!t. AIG took YOUR money and gave out bullsh!t bonuses. WTF?

(Sidenote: Daimler does not own Chrysler. What are you talking about Andy? Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity investment firm owns the automaker. The Germans have nothing to do with it. Why would you say that?)


How much has Citibank and AIG lost this year? How much? What about Freddie and Fannie? How much have they lost this year? A lot more than the automakers. We GAVE them money, no questions asked.

Chapter 11 is not an option, and why people don't see that simply stuns me. Nobody, including you and I, would not buy a car from a company in bankrupcy. You'd be a fool to do it, and you know you wouldn't buy from a car maker in that situation. In Chapter 11, they would no longer be obligated to honor ANY warranty. You bought a car 3 days ago, brand new, guess what.....It's already out of warranty. People aren't stupid enough to go buy a car in that situation. Remember when the airlines filed Chapter 11, they dumped the pensions of the people who built the company.

The GOP is not asking dealers, suppliers, or anybody else BUT the WORKERS to take a pay cut. This is clearly payback. They automakers are not asking for us to subsidize anything. They want loans. Big difference.

When the automakers lay off workers by the tens of thousands, you'll feel that. It going to cost a lot more to keep them in business than it would to let them go. It would break the back of the economy. The tonnage of the trickle down effect is enormous. Suppliers, tool makers, etc will all go under. You're looking at 3M+ people on the street in addition to those on the street today. The US had a 26 year high in unemployment claims last week, so yeah, let's go ahead and pile on.
 
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I drive a Chevrolet Tahoe. Never had any issues with it. Love the thing. But I know this. You can't pay a person $50 an hour to build a car and expect to sell it to a person making $10.00 an hour. The bubble will burst. A GM employee told this to me 15 years ago. Guess the bubble exploded. I lost heavely on GM stock. Do not use my tax dollars to bail the damn things out!
 
Oh hey look, I agree with both you guys. I drive a Nissan. But AIG just got 150B+, no questions asked; now they're giving out $90,400 to 4M in bonus payments to 168 people and keeping their flight department.
THat's why I applauded my congressman for voting against the Wall St bailout twice in as many days. I'm livid that the Congress passed such a handout without the teeth to block the abuses you cite.

The big 3 want 25B in loans and the GOP tells them to fuk off? Where is their morality with the AIG issues. Where is it? I've not heard one of them say sh!t. AIG took YOUR money and gave out bullsh!t bonuses. WTF?
...but you DO see the GOP in Congress predominantly vote against both, do you not?

(Sidenote: Daimler does not own Chrysler. What are you talking about Andy? Cerberus Capital Management, a private equity investment firm owns the automaker. The Germans have nothing to do with it. Why would you say that?)
My mistake. Dailmer did own Chrysler until last year when they sold it to Cerebus. By the way, Cerebus is named for the mythical three-headed dog that guarded the door in Hades. This from another site:

Although Cerberus owns 80% of now troubled Chrysler Corporation, it has refused to inject cash into Chrysler.... Ginny Brown-Waite, Chrysler President and CEO Robert Nardelli said that Cerberus' other fiduciary obligations to its other investors and investments prohibited it from injecting capital.

So the owner is acting responsibly in respect to their investors and we expect Congress to inject the necessary funds in a business with a flawed plan?

How much has Citibank and AIG lost this year? How much? What about Freddie and Fannie? How much have they lost this year? A lot more than the automakers. We GAVE them money, no questions asked.
Against my wishes.....as previously stated.
Chapter 11 is not an option, and why people don't see that simply stuns me. Nobody, including you and I, would not buy a car from a company in bankrupcy. You'd be a fool to do it, and you know you wouldn't buy from a car maker in that situation. In Chapter 11, they would no longer be obligated to honor ANY warranty. You bought a car 3 days ago, brand new, guess what.....It's already out of warranty. People aren't stupid enough to go buy a car in that situation. Remember when the airlines filed Chapter 11, they dumped the pensions of the people who built the company.
Did people stop flying on Delta, United, America West, Continental, Comair, Frontier or any other airline that has been in bankruptcy? Why? THey may have gotten to the airport and found their tickets dishonored.

The GOP is not asking dealers, suppliers, or anybody else BUT the WORKERS to take a pay cut. This is clearly payback. They automakers are not asking for us to subsidize anything. They want loans. Big difference.

They are asking that the automakers come up with a viable plan before opening the public wallet.
When the automakers lay off workers by the tens of thousands, you'll feel that. It going to cost a lot more to keep them in business than it would to let them go. It would break the back of the economy. The tonnage of the trickle down effect is enormous. Suppliers, tool makers, etc will all go under. You're looking at 3M+ people on the street in addition to those on the street today. The US had a 26 year high in unemployment claims last week, so yeah, let's go ahead and pile on.

yeah, and the US will have to go to other countries for it's defense needs according to one of Michigan's senators. It is not a case of all or nothing. A new auto industry with a workable business plan will emerge. I know if I were sitting in the CEO's seat, I would rather take my company into bankruptcy to restructure rather than close the doors. Wouldn't you?
 
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THat's why I applauded my congressman for voting against the Wall St bailout twice in as many days. I'm livid that the Congress passed such a handout without the teeth to block the abuses you cite.
...but you DO see the GOP in Congress predominantly vote against both, do you not?

No, I don't. There was no vote in Congress pertaining to AIG. AIG picked up the phone and got the funds they wanted without conditions and without having to go through checks and balances. They called their buds over in the Treasury Department and got 150B, no questions asked.

I would rather take my company into bankruptcy to restructure rather than close the doors. Wouldn't you?

In any other industry, yes, but not the auto industry. People won't buy. AIG should have filed Chapter 11 so they could reorganize their Default Credit Swaps.
 
No, I don't. There was no vote in Congress pertaining to AIG. AIG picked up the phone and got the funds they wanted without conditions and without having to go through checks and balances. They called their buds over in the Treasury Department and got 150B, no questions asked.
Treasury disbursed unappropriated funds? Somewhere along the line, Congress with a Democratic majority appropriated that money.
AIG should have filed Chapter 11 so they could reorganize their Default Credit Swaps.
No argument from me on that point.
 

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