BAX Global Sold

[Midnight Flyer]

That's about the dumbest theory I've heard on this board, and that's saying something! What does a heavy have to do with only ATI being able to fly it? Are you saying that CCI pilots because the fly a "small" 727 can't handle a big, bad 767? That's the same type of crap that the pax mainline pilots pull on us all the time.

No silly, you're misunderstanding.
I'm saying that because ATI's niche is with heavy aircraft, ie the dc8. they're already flying BAX's s heavy lift in the DC-8, I can see that CHI will want to keep ATI flying the heavies, and when it's time to introduce more or different aircraft, CHI could possibly give the heavies to ATI since that's what they already do.
CCIA flies narrowbody to the cities where the loads aren't as heavy. That's what we specialize in. Now if we at CCIA get new aircraft, it has been said that we will get 757's. That would be an excellent fit for the type of flying that CCIA does for BAX.
You have to remember that CHI said they are going to operate the 2 airlines seperately. ATI and CCIA have never competed, and as I said earlier, we both have our own seperate niches with BAX.
By the way, that is just a theory. That does not mean I believe in it 100% or hope it happens, it's just something that CHI may do, that's all. I have little preference how any of this turns out, as long as ATI and CCIA pilots get to keep their jobs. RJDC, you know how pilots are, we love to express our opinions, to speculate, theorize and even try to predict what will happen in the future, etc... As long as it stays positive, I don't see any problem with "wishful thinking". Current events within the company or the industry is ususally the topic of conversation in the cockpit.

Furthermore, I don't know what you're trying to start by saying that I'm suggesting CCIA pilots are incapable of flying anything larger than a 727. I am a CCIA pilot. I know for a fact that a large group of our pilots have flown bigger aircraft with either the military and/or prior airlines. Also, there has never been any bad feelings between ATI and CCIA, mainly because we've never been competitors. We do completely different types of flying for BAX. We've always worked well together and are always giving each other rides. RJDC, there will be a time when you reach our level of professional aviation. When that time comes, you'll realize that aircraft size or complexity does not matter as much anymore. What becomes important is QOL, etc... You're probably one of those young guys itching to get into a 747 just to say you've crossed the pond. I know major airline captains who have flown every plane the airline has, but settles back into an MD-80, because in his base, he's the senior pilot in that plane and he can have a better schedule.

Please read posts a little closer before you start diarreah of the mouth. RJDC, I don't think you want to get into a "size and/or aircraft complexity" discussion; based on your profile, you're just a RJ pilot. Good 'ole button-pusher, computer operator, systems monitor. If you want to get into a discussion about size and/or complexity of aircraft or how much skill & ability it takes to fly the 8 and 727, fine, but you'll be digging your own grave.

Just let me tell you that a few of the RJ hotshots we hired couldn't handle the 727 and they washed out of training.
I don't know who you are or who you work for, but unless you have positive comments to make and unless you work for ATI, CCIA, CHI or BAX..or unless you fly the 727 or the dc-8, don't get involved with this conversation.

 

[Usedtobe]

Lets all slow down

Guys, do you not think that all of us at both ATI and Capital should maybe just wait and see what the plans are for now, rather than make wild speculation about who will fly what and when and where they will fly them. While the conversation starts out nice and friendly, it quickly digresses to something toher than nice and pretty soon, everyone is mad as hell at each other. I personally would think that maybe we all could sit back and enjoy this for a while knowing that we are all employed for a few more years. Those of us who fly in this system and know each other have gotten along just fine for several years. We help each other with rides and such, while enjoying the friendship that we have forged over those years and some that have been continued from previous jobs. I dont know how any of us can think for one minute that we can predict what "they" plan to do when we can"t even predict what the "scheduled hub operation" is from night to night. I would think that initially, "they" plan to keep operating and trying to be the best so "our" new German friends dont get mad as hell and exercise their out clause that all contracts contain, and go and look for some other operators.
As for DAL737FO, we all have a right to express our/your opinions on this forum and "we" respect that, however enjoy your life at Delta and please don't add conjecture to this conversation that tends to only inflame people who are here trying to "get along".

 

[DAL737FO]

As for DAL737FO, we all have a right to express our/your opinions on this forum and "we" respect that, however enjoy your life at Delta and please don't add conjecture to this conversation that tends to only inflame people who are here trying to "get along".

What a funny paragraph. You have a right to speak but I'm telling you not to do it. I still don't understand what I said that could "inflame" you guys at ATI. I don't believe anyone is inflamed at CCIA except for how the contract negotiations are going. My point is/was that CCIA owns four B767s (CCIA's parent company that is) and that the B727's although fun to fly are getting old and are expensive and that maybe CCIA can start flying those aircraft on routes that Cappy already flies. I don't know how many times my schedule changed because HRL or some other places loads got too high for a 727 for one day so we switched the schedule around to replace it with an ATI DC8. Don't you think it would be nice to be able to pick up that slack internally? As for enjoying life at Delta obviously you have not been keeping up with current events! (TIC) In the end ATI and CCIA will fly what the head shed wants it to.

 

[big pimpn']

Maybe CCI bought ATI to get the BAX flying for themselves and they intend to transfer the flying to CCI with 767's?

You have already been told on page 2 by T Gates that CCI did not buy ATI. I will repeat, CCI DID NOT BUY ATI. CHI (Cargo Holdings International) is in the process of purchasing ATI. CHI will be the owner of both ATI and CCI.

We have all been told that both ATI and CCI will continue to operate as separate companies. Please do me a favor and get your facts strait before posting bogus information.


Everyone needs to relax, and let this play out. I am sure it will be a good thing for both companies.

 

[727Niteflyer]

767's going to ATI is a real possiblity. They already have the buisness for it and I know our accountants are already looking at the age and reliablility of some of the 8's.

Or like I said before CCIA is a lean mean moneymaking machine. The accountants have cut us bare to the bone and our profits are enourmous for an airline our size.

Again if you were a CHI share holder and you have new aircraft to place in one of the two which company would you place them in. If the germans were to grow this thing like we all are hoping, as a CHI shareholder which company would you want to grow.

I have already heard that one of our accountants is heading to little rock to start analyisis. Hold your breath ATI.

Lets all hope the Germans want to compete in the airfreight market.

As for 75's, Im 99.9 % sure they are on there way.

 

[big pimpn']

Personally I think the ATI guys are in for a rude awakening. I just hope that the powers to be doesnt go over to ATI and start stripping it of its assets. We could very will end up with 767s doing the ATI routes for bax.

Lots of rumors already about 757s on the property to replace the 72s (lots of fuel issues).

Like I said its going to depend on what the germans want to do with the air freight market and what CHI wants to do with ATI.

Why are you spouting such doom and gloom for ATI? What do you have against such a profitable, successful airline?

 

[727Niteflyer]

by the way, lay off the rj pilot. he is probably a young kid trying to build time. He knows nothing about what we do, our buisness, what we fly, qol or money we make.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I dont wish any doom or gloom for ATI. I think its a great operation that really knows how to take care of their people. Fact of the matter is that CCIA does not take care of the employees like ATI looks after theirs.

Thats the problem. In order to take care of your employees it usually cost some money. And being that CHI has always owned CCIA and operates it like it wants to, I cant believe that ATI is going to continue to operate in the same way that it has been.

Personally I hope that some of our management look at ATI and come back to CCIA and implement some of the good things for us. I just dont think this will happen. Thats why I say I think the ATI guys are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

by the way, lay off the rj pilot. he is probably a young kid trying to build time. He knows nothing about what we do, our buisness, what we fly, qol or money we make.

I see what you mean, he probably is a young punk.
However, he needs to stay out of this conversation and stop stirring the pot and upsetting everybody.

ATI is alot better run that CCIA is. I know by first hand, mainly from visiting with the pilots of ATI, when they're on our jumpseat.

Sure, things could be better at CCIA, but if you think things are bad here, I chuckle and say to go work for one of the regionals and see how bad things really can be!! It takes a regional fo 3-4 years to make what our fo's make right off the bat. Our schedulers know us by name, everybody's friendly, and the pilots for the most part seem happy. Sure, things were alot better here when CCIA was first formed, but things are still are better than alot of places

 

[727Niteflyer]

Im not saying things are bad here at CCIA at all. I enjoy the flying, the people and the equipment I feel is very well maintained. I have a great QOL that I enjoy far better than my buddies over at the regionals and even some of the majors.

My point is this. We pilots at CCIA have everything to gain in this deal. We have some stability (they just signed a 6 year deal with the germans) and we have the real possiblity of expansion which we havent seen in a loooong time. If management takes any ideas from ATI and implement them here, again we will be better off.

A good example is just in the hotels. Generally ATI puts their crews up in better hotels than we do. If the company decided to use the same hotels all the way around than maybe it will be a step up for us.

The ATI guys on the other hand can easily go backwards. If managment wants to implement more of CCIA efficiencies into ATI to make it more profitable than the ATI crews will probably lose some of the nice things they have. And I guarrantee they are going to have a heavy duty fight on their hands in the contract negotiations.

I think this is a great things for both companies. Maybe now we have a company (the germans) that are really going to commit to moving some freight.

I just feel the ATI crews, which I really like and get along with, are going to have a genuine fight on their hands, the like of which we have been fighting for several years.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Im not saying things are bad here at CCIA at all. I enjoy the flying, the people and the equipment I feel is very well maintained. I have a great QOL that I enjoy far better than my buddies over at the regionals and even some of the majors.

My point is this. We pilots at CCIA have everything to gain in this deal. We have some stability (they just signed a 6 year deal with the germans) and we have the real possiblity of expansion which we havent seen in a loooong time. If management takes any ideas from ATI and implement them here, again we will be better off.

A good example is just in the hotels. Generally ATI puts their crews up in better hotels than we do. If the company decided to use the same hotels all the way around than maybe it will be a step up for us.

The ATI guys on the other hand can easily go backwards. If managment wants to implement more of CCIA efficiencies into ATI to make it more profitable than the ATI crews will probably lose some of the nice things they have. And I guarrantee they are going to have a heavy duty fight on their hands in the contract negotiations.

I think this is a great things for both companies. Maybe now we have a company (the germans) that are really going to commit to moving some freight.

I just feel the ATI crews, which I really like and get along with, are going to have a genuine fight on their hands, the like of which we have been fighting for several years.

That's true, we at CCIA can only gain from all of this. Im my mind, we already have if we truly have a 6 year contract that they will stick with.

Do you think that since we're still seperate airlines and probably always will be, that CHI will start making them stay in the same crappy hotels we do?
That's what I can't figure out, because if the airlines are run seperately, then they would remain in their origional hotels. besides, they have teamsters (I believe) and we don't even have a union, only an association. CHI can't just go in there and change hotels on them if it's already written in the contract.

 

[RJDC]

by the way, lay off the rj pilot. he is probably a young kid trying to build time. He knows nothing about what we do, our buisness, what we fly, qol or money we make.

I do know one thing about your business. You sure don't make near the money that your counterparts at UPS/FedEx/ABX and Astar make for flying the same aircraft doing the same type of flying. Why is that?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

I do know one thing about your business. You sure don't make near the money that your counterparts at UPS/FedEx/ABX and Astar make for flying the same aircraft doing the same type of flying. Why is that?

I'm no financial expert but I would say, because Fed Ex and UPS have their "own" freight unlike us. They are also a major airline with a huge number of aircraft, where we have less than 15 or so aircraft.

I say, pound for pound, we do pretty well given our size and what we do.

 

[SaifAir]

The talk of the 767's going to ATI and the 757's to Crappy does not make any sense. Why would you separate these aircraft on separate certificates? It is a common type rating that would make for a lot of inefficient scheduling compared to both types on the same certificate. It is going to come down to one thing -- cost to operate the aircraft. ATI is a much better company, because thier group has dug thier heels in before. Cappy guys will alway bend over and take what Chorley throws at them.

 

[big pimpn']

I do know one thing about your business. You sure don't make near the money that your counterparts at UPS/FedEx/ABX and Astar make for flying the same aircraft doing the same type of flying. Why is that?

Sorry. I don't speak retardese. Can you get someone to translate into meaningful English before you post, please? Trying to get something of value out of your post is like trying to squeeze orange juice out of an apple. Why is it that the people with the smallest minds always have the biggest mouths? A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. I suggest you need Mark Twain's advice; "It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Why don't you shrink your head and use it as a paperweight? It's not much use for writing intelligent posts with, that's for sure. If you're going to say something that ignorant, you could at least fake a stroke. You've got a big hole in your head, now shut it. When you are at a loss for words, your loss is our gain. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed: "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

To sum up: you are about as smart as your rubber bow tie and two left shoes suggest, Bozo. Now, go curl back up in your corner, and continue chewing on your toenails.

 

[big pimpn']

Sorry for getting off the topic,

CHI purchasing ATI does not have any significance when it comes to the fact that ATI has a union and CCI does not. This is a good thing in my opinion for CCI. ATI’s union would never allow CHI to resort to sub par hotels, lower pay, or any other lower qol issues; this puts CCI in a very good position. CCI now has leverage to join the teamsters, get a pay increase, and stay in nicer hotels now that both companies are going to be owned by CHI.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

The talk of the 767's going to ATI and the 757's to Crappy does not make any sense. Why would you separate these aircraft on separate certificates? It is a common type rating that would make for a lot of inefficient scheduling compared to both types on the same certificate. It is going to come down to one thing -- cost to operate the aircraft. ATI is a much better company, because thier group has dug thier heels in before. Cappy guys will alway bend over and take what Chorley throws at them.

Cost is definately a factor with CHI and CCIA. I dont' know where you get your information about Cappy pilots bending over and taking it from Chorley. Most people I fly with hate him with a vengence, but I can name you 2-3 that are "yes men" for the company, but you have those types where ever you go.

For the most part, he is hated and we try not to take any of his crap.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Big Pimpin I agree completely with you. Thats why I said before we have nothing to lose in this deal (CCIA that is).

As for 767s, if CHI decides to retire some of the 8's ATI probably will see 76's on the property to replace them. CHI already owns 4.

I really for see though ATI operating the MAC and charter stuff with wide bodies and CCIA taking over a majority of the Toledo freight, either with more 72's or 75's. Like I said they are looking very hard at replacing the 72's because of the price of gas.

And then their is RJDC. I really dont compare my pay to ups, fedex and abex because of our buisness (acmi). I have many friends over at usair, united, and nw that use to brag about how much they made also. Now they are not making much more than I do . Those who are making the big bucks now probably will get knocked down sooner or later. It will be a matter of time before someone gets the idea of making a LCC in the overnight freight buisness and offer to transport packages overnight for 5 bucks. When that happens those in the purple and brown will probably feel the pinch also. To make such a statement as you did shows alot of cockiness and stupidity.

 

[needapayraise]

Big Pimpin I agree completely with you. Thats why I said before we have nothing to lose in this deal (CCIA that is).

As for 767s, if CHI decides to retire some of the 8's ATI probably will see 76's on the property to replace them. CHI already owns 4.

I really for see though ATI operating the MAC and charter stuff with wide bodies and CCIA taking over a majority of the Toledo freight, either with more 72's or 75's. Like I said they are looking very hard at replacing the 72's because of the price of gas.

And then their is RJDC. I really dont compare my pay to ups, fedex and abex because of our buisness (acmi). I have many friends over at usair, united, and nw that use to brag about how much they made also. Now they are not making much more than I do . Those who are making the big bucks now probably will get knocked down sooner or later. It will be a matter of time before someone gets the idea of making a LCC in the overnight freight buisness and offer to transport packages overnight for 5 bucks. When that happens those in the purple and brown will probably feel the pinch also. To make such a statement as you did shows alot of cockiness and stupidity.

Both ABX and Astar are ACMI carriers and they pay WAY more than CCI or ATI.

 

[PCL_128]

Both ABX and Astar are ACMI carriers and they pay WAY more than CCI or ATI.

That's because, as you know, ABEX and AStar weren't ACMI carriers until the German buy-out. The ACMI carriers like CCIA and Kalitta will eventually bring their pay up, but it will take time. For now, the pay isn't bad, and it's certainly better starting pay than the regionals. That much is certain.

 

[big pimpn']

Your right, CCIA does have an in house union. To be more specific, I am hoping that with the acquisition CCIA can come over and join the teamsters. As you pointed out, this would further unify both pilot groups at ATI and CCIA.

 

[Usedtobe]

To DAL737FO, I suppose I did not word my comments exactly the way they should have been. Let me clear it up a little bit. Must of us know that you were a crewmember at CCIA and that you left and returned to Delta which most if not all would have done in your case. I sincerely wish you the best there. My point was and is,event more so to the RJDC guy, if you are trying to add to the "dark side" of what may or may not happen as a result of this latest change in our jobs at CCIA and ATI, please don't do that. There are those of us who work at both of these companies who want to continue working here and try and make things better for both groups. WE all have a common goal now and we will be more successful if we try and work together. As some here have said, this is a great opportunity for all of us at both companies. Oh and by the way DAL737FO, why did you assume that I worked at ATI??? That was your first wrong assumption, but not that important. AS for the RJDC guy,do the rest of you guys remember when you were new with 5000 hours and had all the answers?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

As for the RJDC guy,do the rest of you guys remember when you were new with 5000 hours and had all the answers?

I remember when I was new, and you're right; alot of us go through somewhat of a confidence stage, thinking we know it all. I just can't recall ever running my mouth like RJDC has, which only makes him look stupid.
It's just irratating when people like him jump in this thread stirring the pot.

Speaking of stirring the pot, it seems like the only positive posts relating to this CHI/ATI/CCIA thing is coming from us Cappy and ATI pilots. All of the negative posts seem to be from jealous outsiders or disgruntled ex employees. (not talking about you, DAL737fo, you're ok in my book ).

I don't know who RJDC is, but it's obvious he is either a former employee or somebody who quit and is now kicking himself in the a$$ because of it. There is no reason a regional pilot would hold such an interest in this thread unless he has worked here.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

I think the future of both CCIA and ATI is bright, and I hope we can all ride it to good fortune.

AMEN BRUTHA! :nuts:

 

[needapayraise]

Just wait till some upstart LCC cargo airline comes along and underbids you for the BAX flying.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Just wait till some upstart LCC cargo airline comes along and underbids you for the BAX flying.

we have been fighting off the likes of cat and expressnet for the past 4 or 5 years. Hopefully this 6 year contract will finally allow us some room to breath.

 

[Publishers]

The money today is in the key word back at the beginning of this thread, logistics. Logistics is the key phrase to controling freight, where and how it travels, by controling the system rather than just providing simple lift from a to b. Many of these companies look at the air operation as a necessary evil. they make all their money on other parts of the business.

 

[mrvmo]

Don't think anybody is kicking themselves in the shi%#er for leaving Cappy, getting a bit high on ourselves aren't we?

 

[727Niteflyer]

Don't think anybody is kicking themselves in the shi%#er for leaving Cappy, getting a bit high on ourselves aren't we?

Well I think that those of us here at Cappy and ATI are really thinking that this could turn in to a very good thing. If the Germans wanted to expand the airfreight buisness than we (both companies) are going to be the ones doing it. I dont know whether anyone would regret leaving. Lord knows I regretted some of the decisions Ive made in the past. Im just keeping my fingers crossed that the decision to stay here might turn out to be a good one.

Brinks has had no interest in the past of committing any resources into bax. Those of us that have been flying the system have watched freight loads sky rocket yet bax doesnt want to add airplanes or expand. All of the employees of both companies are thinking this could turn into something good.

It seems inevitable that if your in aviation long enough you make a bad decision that you later regret.

 

[dsee8driver]

I do know one thing about your business. You sure don't make near the money that your counterparts at UPS/FedEx/ABX and Astar make for flying the same aircraft doing the same type of flying. Why is that?

Sorry RJ, I don't know where you get your information from but ATI-BAX are not in the same category of business as Fed EX/UPS/ABX. ABX is now trying to get into the ACMI, FED EX/UPS/DHL fly very different cargo. They still depend on the next day letter/package stuff as BAX moves the bigger-heavy freight. We fly same planes but business is very different.