BAX Global Sold

[DAL737FO]

Maybe Cappy can now use those four 767's that the parent company owns and wet leases back out.

 

[big pimpn']

Maybe Cappy can now use those four 767's that the parent company owns and wet leases back out.

Please explain. I don't see any correlation between BAX being sold, CHI purchasing ATI, and CCI operating 767s. I am not trying to be confrontational; I just don't see what you are getting at.

There is a pilot on another website discussing a rumor that CCI is going to replace ATI DC-8s with 767s. ATI is a very profitable airline and does very well not only domestically, but also internationally with AMC charters. I do not see how anyone would ever think that CCI could operate 767s in place of ATI DC-8s. If anything, I would think that ATI would be the ones to buy their own newer aircraft to eventually replace the DC-8.

When everything is final with CHI purchasing ATI, I would think this is a good thing for both companies. I think that both CCI and ATI can grow and continue to be profitable in the years ahead.

 

[big pimpn']

Like my inflight announcements say, "Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride!"

Ditto.

 

[727Niteflyer]

a lot is going to depend on what the germans want to do with the airfreight division. Hopefully they will want to expand to compete with DHL and we will all see new aircraft and routes.

The only thing I can say about ATI and CCIA is that CCIA has been cut bare to the bones. On paper I would guess that they look far better than ATI does (profitability that is). If I was a CHI share holder and a bunch of new routes and aircraft were offered from the Germans, I would want to grow the company that is going to generate the most profits.

I would take a guess that ATI would continue the mac routes and charters but as far as the bax freight, you might see CCIA replacing some of the ATI aicraft with new ones or see some more 72's in toledo.

 

[DAL737FO]

Please explain. I don't see any correlation between BAX being sold, CHI purchasing ATI, and CCI operating 767s. I am not trying to be confrontational; I just don't see what you are getting at.

What I'm saying is that they already own the airplanes but have not had the opportunity to fly them. Maybe now that Peter F. is in with the Germans that maybe Cappy pilots can actually fly airplanes owned by their company. I'm not saying that they take your flying.

 

[big pimpn']

I appreciate your response; I think that that would be a very good situation for CCI. The thing that I disagree with is the notion that CCI is going to replace ATI aircraft in the BAX system. I think the most important thing to keep in mind during this transition is that CHI would not invest in two airlines unless they have plans for continued growth and success for both ATI and CCI.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Personally I think the ATI guys are in for a rude awakening. I just hope that the powers to be doesnt go over to ATI and start stripping it of its assets. We could very will end up with 767s doing the ATI routes for bax.

Lots of rumors already about 757s on the property to replace the 72s (lots of fuel issues).

Like I said its going to depend on what the germans want to do with the air freight market and what CHI wants to do with ATI.

 

[RJDC]

Maybe CCI bought ATI to get the BAX flying for themselves and they intend to transfer the flying to CCI with 767's?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Here's a theory:
Maybe since ATI has always and probably always will operate heavies, ATI "may" possiblibly be the ones to start flying CHI's 767's. That is, unless P.F. thinks that he can make more $$ by having them leased out to DHL or wherever it is he's leasing them to.
Sure, the 727's are money making machines for the ACMI's, but only because they're not paying for the fuel to operate them.
I've also heard that if CCIA does get a new aircraft, it will probably be the 757. CCIA has always flown narrowbodies, and the 757 will be a perfect upgrade.

 

[RJDC]

Here's a theory:
Maybe since ATI has always and probably always will operate heavies, ATI "may" possiblibly be the ones to start flying CHI's 767's. That is, unless P.F. thinks that he can make more $$ by having them leased out to DHL or wherever it is he's leasing them to.
Sure, the 727's are money making machines for the ACMI's, but only because they're not paying for the fuel to operate them.
I've also heard that if CCIA does get a new aircraft, it will probably be the 757. CCIA has always flown narrowbodies, and the 757 will be a perfect upgrade.

That's about the dumbest theory I've heard on this board, and that's saying something! What does a heavy have to do with only ATI being able to fly it? Are you saying that CCI pilots because the fly a "small" 727 can't handle a big, bad 767? That's the same type of crap that the pax mainline pilots pull on us all the time.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

That's about the dumbest theory I've heard on this board, and that's saying something! What does a heavy have to do with only ATI being able to fly it? Are you saying that CCI pilots because the fly a "small" 727 can't handle a big, bad 767? That's the same type of crap that the pax mainline pilots pull on us all the time.

No silly, you're misunderstanding.
I'm saying that because ATI's niche is with heavy aircraft, ie the dc8. they're already flying BAX's s heavy lift in the DC-8, I can see that CHI will want to keep ATI flying the heavies, and when it's time to introduce more or different aircraft, CHI could possibly give the heavies to ATI since that's what they already do.
CCIA flies narrowbody to the cities where the loads aren't as heavy. That's what we specialize in. Now if we at CCIA get new aircraft, it has been said that we will get 757's. That would be an excellent fit for the type of flying that CCIA does for BAX.
You have to remember that CHI said they are going to operate the 2 airlines seperately. ATI and CCIA have never competed, and as I said earlier, we both have our own seperate niches with BAX.
By the way, that is just a theory. That does not mean I believe in it 100% or hope it happens, it's just something that CHI may do, that's all. I have little preference how any of this turns out, as long as ATI and CCIA pilots get to keep their jobs. RJDC, you know how pilots are, we love to express our opinions, to speculate, theorize and even try to predict what will happen in the future, etc... As long as it stays positive, I don't see any problem with "wishful thinking". Current events within the company or the industry is ususally the topic of conversation in the cockpit.

Furthermore, I don't know what you're trying to start by saying that I'm suggesting CCIA pilots are incapable of flying anything larger than a 727. I am a CCIA pilot. I know for a fact that a large group of our pilots have flown bigger aircraft with either the military and/or prior airlines. Also, there has never been any bad feelings between ATI and CCIA, mainly because we've never been competitors. We do completely different types of flying for BAX. We've always worked well together and are always giving each other rides. RJDC, there will be a time when you reach our level of professional aviation. When that time comes, you'll realize that aircraft size or complexity does not matter as much anymore. What becomes important is QOL, etc... You're probably one of those young guys itching to get into a 747 just to say you've crossed the pond. I know major airline captains who have flown every plane the airline has, but settles back into an MD-80, because in his base, he's the senior pilot in that plane and he can have a better schedule.

Please read posts a little closer before you start diarreah of the mouth. RJDC, I don't think you want to get into a "size and/or aircraft complexity" discussion; based on your profile, you're just a RJ pilot. Good 'ole button-pusher, computer operator, systems monitor. If you want to get into a discussion about size and/or complexity of aircraft or how much skill & ability it takes to fly the 8 and 727, fine, but you'll be digging your own grave.

Just let me tell you that a few of the RJ hotshots we hired couldn't handle the 727 and they washed out of training.
I don't know who you are or who you work for, but unless you have positive comments to make and unless you work for ATI, CCIA, CHI or BAX..or unless you fly the 727 or the dc-8, don't get involved with this conversation.

 

[Usedtobe]

Lets all slow down

Guys, do you not think that all of us at both ATI and Capital should maybe just wait and see what the plans are for now, rather than make wild speculation about who will fly what and when and where they will fly them. While the conversation starts out nice and friendly, it quickly digresses to something toher than nice and pretty soon, everyone is mad as hell at each other. I personally would think that maybe we all could sit back and enjoy this for a while knowing that we are all employed for a few more years. Those of us who fly in this system and know each other have gotten along just fine for several years. We help each other with rides and such, while enjoying the friendship that we have forged over those years and some that have been continued from previous jobs. I dont know how any of us can think for one minute that we can predict what "they" plan to do when we can"t even predict what the "scheduled hub operation" is from night to night. I would think that initially, "they" plan to keep operating and trying to be the best so "our" new German friends dont get mad as hell and exercise their out clause that all contracts contain, and go and look for some other operators.
As for DAL737FO, we all have a right to express our/your opinions on this forum and "we" respect that, however enjoy your life at Delta and please don't add conjecture to this conversation that tends to only inflame people who are here trying to "get along".

 

[DAL737FO]

As for DAL737FO, we all have a right to express our/your opinions on this forum and "we" respect that, however enjoy your life at Delta and please don't add conjecture to this conversation that tends to only inflame people who are here trying to "get along".

What a funny paragraph. You have a right to speak but I'm telling you not to do it. I still don't understand what I said that could "inflame" you guys at ATI. I don't believe anyone is inflamed at CCIA except for how the contract negotiations are going. My point is/was that CCIA owns four B767s (CCIA's parent company that is) and that the B727's although fun to fly are getting old and are expensive and that maybe CCIA can start flying those aircraft on routes that Cappy already flies. I don't know how many times my schedule changed because HRL or some other places loads got too high for a 727 for one day so we switched the schedule around to replace it with an ATI DC8. Don't you think it would be nice to be able to pick up that slack internally? As for enjoying life at Delta obviously you have not been keeping up with current events! (TIC) In the end ATI and CCIA will fly what the head shed wants it to.

 

[big pimpn']

Maybe CCI bought ATI to get the BAX flying for themselves and they intend to transfer the flying to CCI with 767's?

You have already been told on page 2 by T Gates that CCI did not buy ATI. I will repeat, CCI DID NOT BUY ATI. CHI (Cargo Holdings International) is in the process of purchasing ATI. CHI will be the owner of both ATI and CCI.

We have all been told that both ATI and CCI will continue to operate as separate companies. Please do me a favor and get your facts strait before posting bogus information.


Everyone needs to relax, and let this play out. I am sure it will be a good thing for both companies.

 

[727Niteflyer]

767's going to ATI is a real possiblity. They already have the buisness for it and I know our accountants are already looking at the age and reliablility of some of the 8's.

Or like I said before CCIA is a lean mean moneymaking machine. The accountants have cut us bare to the bone and our profits are enourmous for an airline our size.

Again if you were a CHI share holder and you have new aircraft to place in one of the two which company would you place them in. If the germans were to grow this thing like we all are hoping, as a CHI shareholder which company would you want to grow.

I have already heard that one of our accountants is heading to little rock to start analyisis. Hold your breath ATI.

Lets all hope the Germans want to compete in the airfreight market.

As for 75's, Im 99.9 % sure they are on there way.

 

[big pimpn']

Personally I think the ATI guys are in for a rude awakening. I just hope that the powers to be doesnt go over to ATI and start stripping it of its assets. We could very will end up with 767s doing the ATI routes for bax.

Lots of rumors already about 757s on the property to replace the 72s (lots of fuel issues).

Like I said its going to depend on what the germans want to do with the air freight market and what CHI wants to do with ATI.

Why are you spouting such doom and gloom for ATI? What do you have against such a profitable, successful airline?

 

[727Niteflyer]

by the way, lay off the rj pilot. he is probably a young kid trying to build time. He knows nothing about what we do, our buisness, what we fly, qol or money we make.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I dont wish any doom or gloom for ATI. I think its a great operation that really knows how to take care of their people. Fact of the matter is that CCIA does not take care of the employees like ATI looks after theirs.

Thats the problem. In order to take care of your employees it usually cost some money. And being that CHI has always owned CCIA and operates it like it wants to, I cant believe that ATI is going to continue to operate in the same way that it has been.

Personally I hope that some of our management look at ATI and come back to CCIA and implement some of the good things for us. I just dont think this will happen. Thats why I say I think the ATI guys are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

by the way, lay off the rj pilot. he is probably a young kid trying to build time. He knows nothing about what we do, our buisness, what we fly, qol or money we make.

I see what you mean, he probably is a young punk.
However, he needs to stay out of this conversation and stop stirring the pot and upsetting everybody.

ATI is alot better run that CCIA is. I know by first hand, mainly from visiting with the pilots of ATI, when they're on our jumpseat.

Sure, things could be better at CCIA, but if you think things are bad here, I chuckle and say to go work for one of the regionals and see how bad things really can be!! It takes a regional fo 3-4 years to make what our fo's make right off the bat. Our schedulers know us by name, everybody's friendly, and the pilots for the most part seem happy. Sure, things were alot better here when CCIA was first formed, but things are still are better than alot of places

 

[727Niteflyer]

Im not saying things are bad here at CCIA at all. I enjoy the flying, the people and the equipment I feel is very well maintained. I have a great QOL that I enjoy far better than my buddies over at the regionals and even some of the majors.

My point is this. We pilots at CCIA have everything to gain in this deal. We have some stability (they just signed a 6 year deal with the germans) and we have the real possiblity of expansion which we havent seen in a loooong time. If management takes any ideas from ATI and implement them here, again we will be better off.

A good example is just in the hotels. Generally ATI puts their crews up in better hotels than we do. If the company decided to use the same hotels all the way around than maybe it will be a step up for us.

The ATI guys on the other hand can easily go backwards. If managment wants to implement more of CCIA efficiencies into ATI to make it more profitable than the ATI crews will probably lose some of the nice things they have. And I guarrantee they are going to have a heavy duty fight on their hands in the contract negotiations.

I think this is a great things for both companies. Maybe now we have a company (the germans) that are really going to commit to moving some freight.

I just feel the ATI crews, which I really like and get along with, are going to have a genuine fight on their hands, the like of which we have been fighting for several years.