Barron's breaks down industry.

[captain dad]

I just read an article in AIN about the upcoming issue of Barron's. It will have an article breaking down and comparing charter/fractional/ownership of several popular models of business jets. The issue hits stands 4-20-08. It should make good reading.

 

[dudemize]

Just read the article, good info.

It indicated a 25 hour card with Marquis is $126,900 for an Ultra. The going rate for a 1/16 share (50 hrs) of a 400xp is about $420,000 plus monthly management fees and hourly costs.

Here is the last paragraph:

In the end, no form of private aviation is as easy and cheap as buying a commercial airline ticket. So is it really worth hiring consultants, spending all this money and making all these decisions just to fly privately?
If you're asking that question, you probably haven't yet ridden on a business jet. As political consultant James Carville recently told this reporter, "If I had to fly commercial and could stay in the suite in the top of a hotel, or take a private plane and stay in just a room, I'd say, 'Give me the plane.' Once you have sipped the sweet nectar of freedom, you don't go back."

 

[gunfyter]

As political consultant James Carville recently told this reporter, "If I had to fly commercial and could stay in the suite in the top of a hotel, or take a private plane and stay in just a room, I'd say, 'Give me the plane.' Once you have sipped the sweet nectar of freedom, you don't go back."

What about the Gorebal warming?

 

[willNOTfly4free]

It indicated a 25 hour card with Marquis is $126,900 for an Ultra. The going rate for a 1/16 share (50 hrs) of a 400xp is about $420,000 plus monthly management fees and hourly costs.

Those cards are biggest rip-off in the charter industry.

I'm going to take out a newspaper add to say, "Pay me $100,000 and I'll get you 20 hours in a Citation." I could pay retail and still turn a profit.

 

[Fozzy]

"a Citation."

Lets start there. What kind of Citation? What kind of maintenance? What kind of training for the pilots? What kind of rest for the pilots? What kind of back up if your "Citation" breaks? What kind of support structure?
Sorry your nickel and dime daydream has a way to go.

 

[DO-82 driver]

What about the Gorebal warming?

Global (Gorebal) warming....Ha...Caribou, Maine had a record 218 inches of snow this year. Southern Maine average snowfall----123 inches.

I wish we had some warming----you should see my home heating oil bill!!!!!

 

[fischman]

Those cards are biggest rip-off in the charter industry.

I'm going to take out a newspaper add to say, "Pay me $100,000 and I'll get you 20 hours in a Citation." I could pay retail and still turn a profit.

As far as the MarquisJet Pax go, they pay for the QS tail and gold ties.

 

[sexybeast]

Your idea $5000/hr. for 20 hours

NetJets' Marquis card $5076/hr for 25 hours....I'd spend the extra $76/hr for a sure thing.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Those cards are biggest rip-off in the charter industry.

I'm going to take out a newspaper add to say, "Pay me $100,000 and I'll get you 20 hours in a Citation." I could pay retail and still turn a profit.

Well... You said you WOULDN'T fly for free!!!! Quit yur bitchin!!!

Also, it's not just the ride the pax pay for... it's the whole package; something they can't find anywhere else.

 

[Willy21]

Not to mention that when your Ultra breaks or the trip works out right you might be flying in a much larger airplane. I have had many Ultra card holders in the Hawker. All for the price of their Ultra jet card.

 

[realityman]

Not to mention that when your Ultra breaks or the trip works out right you might be flying in a much larger airplane. I have had many Ultra card holders in the Hawker. All for the price of their Ultra jet card.

It does work out well for them sometimes. I was flying some Marquis pax last week when we had to divert due to a mechanical issue. NJA had a Falcon 2000 waiting for them when we landed just 20 minutes later, and they were on the ground less than 15 minutes, and on their way again in a nice big Falcon. They were actually pretty excited about it because they'd never been in a Falcon before.

We are expensive, but we have economy of scale on our side. Makes for happier pax.

 

[jonjuan]

Not to mention that when your Ultra breaks or the trip works out right you might be flying in a much larger airplane. I have had many Ultra card holders in the Hawker. All for the price of their Ultra jet card.

But it works out the other way many times as I have a family friend who bought a Hawker 400 card and found himself flying on an Ultra most of the time as netjets told him that all light jets are fully interchangeable. He felt it was quite a bit of a bait and switch game as he bought one plane and found himself on a much inferior plane.

 

[jppt2000]

Those cards are biggest rip-off in the charter industry.

I'm going to take out a newspaper add to say, "Pay me $100,000 and I'll get you 20 hours in a Citation." I could pay retail and still turn a profit.

You must of been a member of Skybus management.

 

[realityman]

But it works out the other way many times as I have a family friend who bought a Hawker 400 card and found himself flying on an Ultra most of the time as netjets told him that all light jets are fully interchangeable. He felt it was quite a bit of a bait and switch game as he bought one plane and found himself on a much inferior plane.

The Ultra is much inferior to the 400XP? Well, it's slower, but I believe when comparing cabin size (similar), luggage capacity (similar), and ability to actually go anywhere with pax onboard (Ultra wins hands-down) the Ultra is in fact a better plane.

It may just be perception because he specifically paid for the 400XP, but an Ultra is inferior? We could probably have a nice debate about that.

 

[fischman]

But it works out the other way many times as I have a family friend who bought a Hawker 400 card and found himself flying on an Ultra most of the time as netjets told him that all light jets are fully interchangeable. He felt it was quite a bit of a bait and switch game as he bought one plane and found himself on a much inferior plane.

I think you have it backwards. The Ultra is not an inferior airplane to the 400xp from a passenger standpoint. Ultra isn't much slower, it holds more bags, it has better performance, and it doesn't break down as much.

The Beech 400 xp is not close when it comes to the Ultra.

 

[tk855]

But it works out the other way many times as I have a family friend who bought a Hawker 400 card and found himself flying on an Ultra most of the time as netjets told him that all light jets are fully interchangeable. He felt it was quite a bit of a bait and switch game as he bought one plane and found himself on a much inferior plane.

Out of curiosity, what was the deciding factor to purchase the card in the 400xp rather than the Ultra? 9 out of 10 times I think our Marquis owners buy the 400xp simply due to greater availability. As already said, the Ultra overall is a much better airplane. The only thing a 400xp has over an Ultra is a small amount of speed and all 400's are much newer than the Ultra's, that is it. The company ironically considers the 400xp an upgrade to the Ultra due to the aformentioned reasons, it is a complete joke! I wish they would correct that, it would be much easier for us pilots to do our job to the fullest.

 

[Bronco Buster]

Isn't here more headroom in the 400 when seated?

 

[jonjuan]

Out of curiosity, what was the deciding factor to purchase the card in the 400xp rather than the Ultra? 9 out of 10 times I think our Marquis owners buy the 400xp simply due to greater availability. As already said, the Ultra overall is a much better airplane. The only thing a 400xp has over an Ultra is a small amount of speed and all 400's are much newer than the Ultra's, that is it. The company ironically considers the 400xp an upgrade to the Ultra due to the aformentioned reasons, it is a complete joke! I wish they would correct that, it would be much easier for us pilots to do our job to the fullest.

The reason for the 400 over the ultra? Next to each other on the ramp, the 400 has a bigger cabin with a flat floor which is a big differentiator to many people. The prospects are also told that it's the fastest small jet in the world, further reducing costs. Finally, the younger age was a major consideration as the 400 had much newer avionics to include TCAS.

 

[captain dad]

Today, even as the economy falters, more and more corporations and high-net worth individuals are flocking to private aviation. Shipments of new business jets jumped 28% last year, to 1.138 aircraft. And Berkshire's own flight-services division, which includes fractional-share provider NetJets and an aviation-training company – posted a 49% jump in pretax earnings, to a record $547 million.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB120856609051428165.htmlhttp://online.barrons.com/public/search/results.html?mod=b_hpp_header

All the arilines took it in the shorts. We made half a billion in gross profit. WOW!

 

[RP170]

It still amazes me though at how many Part 121 employees are still clueless as to who we are after airlining in my first 6 months here.