Barron's breaks down industry.

[RNObased]

But it works out the other way many times as I have a family friend who bought a Hawker 400 card and found himself flying on an Ultra most of the time as netjets told him that all light jets are fully interchangeable. He felt it was quite a bit of a bait and switch game as he bought one plane and found himself on a much inferior plane.

OK smart guy,

Obviously your family friend is about as smart as you are. How is the Ultra inferior to the 400XP. Have you flown either of these jets?? Have you ridden in either of these jets?? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?? Or is this statement just another Jonjuan idiotic theory?? Think then post.

 

[AirBear8]

The Ultra's can carry more bags than the 400XP and can get in/out of shorter runways and has fewer performance limitations but that's about the only advantages it has. Safety and pax amenities are better in the 400, we have TCAS (only a few Ultras do), standard AC power outlets, and XM Satellite Radio. It rides turbulence better due to the swept wing. The 400 is a great jet for a group of business people with light luggage but if you're bringing the family home from Wally World with tons of bags and souvenirs you'd be better off with an Ultra.

Airbear

P.S.: I've flown both the Ultra and 400XP at NetJets.

 

[fischman]

The Ultra's can carry more bags than the 400XP and can get in/out of shorter runways and has fewer performance limitations but that's about the only advantages it has. Safety and pax amenities are better in the 400, we have TCAS (only a few Ultras do), standard AC power outlets, and XM Satellite Radio. It rides turbulence better due to the swept wing. The 400 is a great jet for a group of business people with light luggage but if you're bringing the family home from Wally World with tons of bags and souvenirs you'd be better off with an Ultra.

Airbear

P.S.: I've flown both the Ultra and 400XP at NetJets.

Serious question here. What does a swept wing have to do with a smoother flight through turbulence?

Also, the Ultra at NJA should be completely retrofitted with TCAS by the end of 2008. That is from Dave Robbins, the CP.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

Serious question here. What does a swept wing have to do with a smoother flight through turbulence?

Might have something to do with the wing loading. The Beechjet does in fact ride turbulence better than a straight wing Citation. The BE400 rides turbulence like a speedboat over choppy water. The Citation wallows through turbulence like a King Air and makes people air sick.

Just my .02 of course.

 

[jonjuan]

Might have something to do with the wing loading. The Beechjet does in fact ride turbulence better than a straight wing Citation. The BE400 rides turbulence like a speedboat over choppy water. The Citation wallows through turbulence like a King Air and makes people air sick.

Just my .02 of course.

Bingo-a well thought out, unemotional, knowledgeable post-thank you and Airbear. The wing loading on the 400 is 67.6 lb/sq ft while the Ultra is 52.2. The downside is that the lower wing loaded aircraft will have a better rate of climb. Also, the 400 has a flat floor which is more comfortable for those paying the bills. TCAS also helps as safety equipment/avionics are important criteria when selecting an aircraft.

 

[RTRHD]

Serious question here. What does a swept wing have to do with a smoother flight through turbulence?

Long story short, it breaks the Felt Effect more due to the three-dimensional boundary layer (swept wing) as apposed to the two-dimensional boundary layer (strait wing).

But I am on my third beer. So I am just making this shtt up.

 

[captain dad]

Serious question here. What does a swept wing have to do with a smoother flight through turbulence?

Also, the Ultra at NJA should be completely retrofitted with TCAS by the end of 2008. That is from Dave Robbins, the CP.

A swept wing makes less lift than a straight wing. Therefore it is less effected by updrafts and gusts, thus making a smoother ride.

Got it right out of the book. You're welcome.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I like airplanes that fly ABOVE the turbulence....like FL510

 

[RTRHD]

I like airplanes that fly ABOVE the turbulence....like FL510

So true @ ISA - 40. Or no gas whichever comes first............

 

[Waldom]

Regarding how an airplane rides turbulence, it all has to do with the density altitude, coreolis effect, angle of decalage (positive or negative), and how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand.

Hope I cleared that up.

Don't listen to rtrhd; if he had been smart enough to be an aeronautical engineer, he would never have become a pilot.




[f.y.i. to those that have difficulty with the obvious; the above is written tongue firmly in cheek.]

 

[NJAowner]

Let's not confuse the issue of which is better from the pilots' viewpoint. From the consumer's view, NJA and Marquis charge slightly more for an Ultra than they do for the 400XP. Therefore, the Ultra is considered an upgrade.

From the owner's or cardmember's standpoint, end of discussion. I can tell NJA for dozens of reasons why I think the Excel is a better a/c for me than the Hawker 800. But the Hawker costs more, therefore, it is an upgrade (P.S. - I have told them that when flying with my family do not upgrade me to an 800XP).

Fly safe.

 

[RTRHD]

Don't listen to rtrhd; if he had been smart enough to be an aeronautical engineer, he would never have become a pilot.

For your information I never pretend to be an aeronautical engineer in a bar. It is always a OBGYN, for once I want them to pay me for looking at it. (Wife coming) Bad RTRHD, Bad RTRHD, For give me Lord for I have sinned again. :crying:

 

[Hawker dude]

Bingo-a well thought out, unemotional, knowledgeable post-thank you and Airbear. The wing loading on the 400 is 67.6 lb/sq ft while the Ultra is 52.2. The downside is that the lower wing loaded aircraft will have a better rate of climb. Also, the 400 has a flat floor which is more comfortable for those paying the bills. TCAS also helps as safety equipment/avionics are important criteria when selecting an aircraft.

dude, it's a beach jet.

and you actually figured out the wing load.

get a life

 

[tk855]

For your information I never pretend to be an aeronautical engineer in a bar. It is always a OBGYN, for once I want them to pay me for looking at it. (Wife coming) Bad RTRHD, Bad RTRHD, For give me Lord for I have sinned again. :crying:

Someone just lost computer priviledges for the rest of the week!!

 

[fischman]

Thanks for the info guys.

I would think that the flex of the wings would do the most to effect the smoothness of the ride, as well as the overall weight of the aircraft.

I guess it is just hard for me to comprehend that big of a difference in the 2 different aircraft. In fairness, I have never flown a 400xp.

 

[fischman]

Let's not confuse the issue of which is better from the pilots' viewpoint. From the consumer's view, NJA and Marquis charge slightly more for an Ultra than they do for the 400XP. Therefore, the Ultra is considered an upgrade.

From the owner's or cardmember's standpoint, end of discussion. I can tell NJA for dozens of reasons why I think the Excel is a better a/c for me than the Hawker 800. But the Hawker costs more, therefore, it is an upgrade (P.S. - I have told them that when flying with my family do not upgrade me to an 800XP).

Fly safe.

That is the first complaint I have ever heard about the 800. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Helmsalee]

Note he said "with my family". That probably means lots of bags. Bag space is not the 800's strong suite.

 

[dime line]

So how is Hillary gonna fix this "turbulence" thing. ITs all the republicans fault

 

[Mooneymite]

So how is Hillary gonna fix this "turbulence" thing. ITs all the republicans fault

Brooms have very high wing loading. I doubt Hillary experiences much turbulence when she flies.

 

[willNOTfly4free]

dude, it's a beach jet.

and you actually figured out the wing load.

get a life

That reminds me of when I used to tell non-aviation people that I fly a Beechjet.
They would immediately think 'Sand, Sun, and Water' Jet, and would always ask, "Why is it called a Beechjet?"

I educated many non-aviation folks about the Beechjet and Hawker Beechcraft Corporation during my 400A days.