Bad news for AF guys

[Draginass]

It's sad that we've sunk to the point that we can't kick the s*** out of a some tribal ragheads, even with complete air supremacy, without having to tap heavily into the Reserve and ANG, AND invoke stop-loss AND bring back retirees. BTW, the Air Staff SAW this shortfall plain and clear 7 years ago. What would happen if we had a well equipped and well-led enemy?

 

[pilot141]

NEO,
Heard a rumor of AETC and AMC talking, but this rumor comes from the AETC side of the house. Supposedly AETC is ticked that AMC isn't releasing many MWS guys to come to the white jets, forcing AETC into a manning problem. AETC plans to fix this by not approving any stop-loss waivers for guys going back to MWS units, but at the same time approving waivers for guys going into AETC units. Time will tell - there are a couple of guys on base waiting on waivers, one going back to the tube of pain, another staying with the Tone.

If the contortions and double-dealing are this deep, how can AFPC claim that stop-loss is not a tool?

Glad I escaped when I did, and this is one reservist who will be a dot when stop-loss ends! One threat of a two-year Global Hawk job is enough to scare me off!

 

[Rock]

They can stop loss my butt into the next century if they'll let me do what I've been training to do for the last 12 years. I'm sitting in two pools, and would still rather kill the terrorists under my bomb pipper than the ones trying to break into my cockpit. The airlines are great, but they seem to be willing to wait. Good. We've got a more important job to do.

 

[trueblue]

Question for Beernear et al:

Beernear, you brought up an interesting concern earlier regarding 7 day opt of new PCS orders. I am on the VML and am expecting orders any day now for a Fall 2002 report NLT date. My original committment date is Oct 2002. What ARE my options?? I want to get out, and have no intentions of incurring extra committment associated with a PCS move. Can I 7 day opt still with stop loss? Surely, they can keep me from getting out for the time being with stop loss, but can they make me move and thus sign on for an additional 3 years??!
A little background which may explain my ignorance...I am a previous MWS C-141 guy now at a Navy AETC base training dudes in T-34s...very little AF influence here and very little places to go to get answers...6 mos to go on original get out date with no DOS established yet. Please help with advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Caveman]

xhercdriver wrote:

"But if I was the Air Force, I'd be very careful about how I used a "manning tool" that is only marginally constitutional at best, difficult to defend in the face of the almost total lack of the use of other tools such as selective service and formal declarations of war. Just how do you tell an American citizen that he must remain in what amounts to "conscripted service" beyond his agreed-upon commitment, when you allow his fellow servicemen to leave? Might take a few years to get there, but I'll bet the Supreme Court would have a field day with it."

Stop loss is a part of a contractual obligation that was voluntarily agreed to. It may be intefering with someone's immediate future but everybody affected by it knew or should have known that it was a possibility before they signed on the dotted line.

It sucks to be prevented from moving on and it also sucks that the AF is using it as a substitute for realistic and effective manning policies. But it is legal, and I think it would be awful difficult when there is a declared 'war' going onto prove that they are using it just as a manning tool.

 

[Spur]

trueblue, my understanding is that if you 7-day opt, you are refusing the additional committment associated with training/pcs. The AF can still send you to training/pcs you, but you will not incur a committment. Prior to stop-loss, the typical 7-day opter with more than 1 year left of ADSC would be very vulnerable to a short tour remote PCS, but their ADSC would not be extended.

 

[Rickinphx]

PCS while stop lossed

Guys give a good look at the reg but here is my take on what I read. If you are stop lossed and either are retirement eligible or have served your commitment, they flag your records and you ARE NOT eligible for PCS. Now is that 100% no, but it means if for some reason you do get NON VOL to another assigment, as soon as the stop loss is removed you can retire/separate with your commitment unfullfilled for training. Interesting that there was mention of a 7 day opt in these threads.

Anyways, that was my take. I asked that question and checked the reg just in case my waiver wasnt approved. Go and check at the MPF and I would recommend talking to someone above a two stripper.

Cheers

 

[zulua320]

Trueblue,
We got the assignments road show yesterday, so this should be the real deal:
Yes, you can 7 day opt during stop loss. You'll establish a date of separation from the 7 day opt. If stop loss ends prior to this DOS then you get out normally. If stop loss is still in effect then you remain in place until stop loss ends then get out. They can't make you pick up any more ADSC.
A better option is to put in you papers NOW, prior to getting an assignment. This will drop you from the assignment pool and will prevent you from having to 7 day opt. It gives you more options in case you have to stay in since pulling you papers from a 7 day opt lets the AF send you to whatever they'd like and you can't refuse (ie you can't 7 day opt a second time).
Hope that's clear as mud.

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm thinkin' like Zulu on this one--I avoided having to do a 7 day opt by putting in separation papers.

Pensacola and FLYING sound like a good combo, even if it is primary training. If you can stay there--you don't have the stress of a move and you hopefully stay current flying. I'd do whatever it took to just sit in place until this period is over. Obviously, if you are miserable where you are--disregard all the above.

 

[trueblue]

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks all for the words of wisdom...no, Albie, I'm not miserable to say the least in Pensacola. In fact, I've loved every bit of the past 10 years I've served and have no regrets...I'm just itchin' to start at JB as soon as possible and don't know how long they will wait for me past my projected (without stop loss) availability date. Since I am barely over 6 months out from my ADSC, I really wasn't in a hurry to put "papers" in to establish a DOS until I absolutely had to, but, zulua320, you brought up an excellent point about not being able to 7 day opt twice, and if you're sure, then go ahead and get a DOS in the system. That's an awesome idea and a good option for me since I now feel like I can burn that inevitable bridge. Again, I just wasn't sure whether or not you could establish a DOS now that stop loss has been in place.

...BTW, any other jetBlue hopefull stop lossed guys/gals? I know there are some out there and I've read the SWA pool list so I know there are a bunch awaiting SW class dates, but haven't heard about jetBlue dudes.