Bad news for AF guys

[ivauir]

NO WAY!!

They let the otorhinolaryngobgists out!!!! How can that be!! They are totally HDLD!!! How can we fight evil doers without an otorhinolaryngobgist? What if I get a soar throat? Just the other day as I was skimming the earth at mach snot looking for OBL and I thought to my self: "self, does your nose itch?" And then I thought: "how am I going mach snot in a C130? This must be a dream" And then I thought "What was that? I think I hear ringing. This must be a dream because I don't fly C130s. Gee, is there an otorhinolaryngobgist on the plane?"

Truly, if they are letting the ENTs (Ear, Nose and Throat) doctors out, AFPC has finally fixed retention. Finally, proof that stop loss MUST not be a retention tool.

To all of those affected (especially the would be retirees) thank you for your continued service. Kill the bad guys, win the war, and make the world stop being so D*&m crazy.

 

[backflip]

Wouldn't it be easier for AFPC to only post the AFSCs that were stop lossed? That way they would only have to list a half dozen or so.

 

[airgator]

Forgive the ignorance

This may seem like a stupid question but is the general concensus that I will have an exceptionally difficult time trying to obtain a slot with the ANG in the next couple of years with no mil background whatsoever?

 

[CCDiscoB]

Airgator,

Not so. The slots those guys are talking about are for experienced pilots. Every unit still needs Lieutenants to keep the rank structure in place, and to fly in the right seat / on the wing. A unit would be hurting with 30 Lt Col hanging around bossing each other around.

Side Note,

I can't believe what I read, T-37 reservists being sent to drones. That's bad.

For those hoping for a Guard unit to rescue you, don't expect them to hire you and let you go off to training. Many units are insisting their new pilots work full time for 3 years before you become a part-timer.

Look on the bright side, those on the promotion list will get to pin on Major incur a commitment, and get sent to a garden spot. It falls into the AF's master plan!

 

[NEO]

The rumor on the street is that AMC had a little talk with AETC about letting guys go on a waiver. Apparently after the talk, all waivers from our base have been rejected. Anyone else hear that rumor. If so, it looks like for the time being we will just have to wait until we win the war on terrorism, erradicate Al Queda (SP), crush the Evil Axis and establish a secure homeland. By my calculations that should only take 100 years.

 

[BeerNear]

Ya'll,

Talked to a bud at ACC. If anybody in ACC knows anything about stop loss, it's him. No s@#t, he said this thing is expected by the commanders to be going on for at least two more years from now. This is not a joke. Meanwhile, I am trying to make myself invisible to AFPC for a new assignment. I wonder if they would PCS me even if I 7-day opted? That would be a sign of things to come.

To quote from the movie M*A*S*H

About Hawkeye

Hotlips: "I wonder how a degenerative person like that could reach a high level of responsibility in the Army Medical Corps?"

Father Mulcahey: "He was drafted."

OUT BN

 

[#1 Windmilling]

Hey Fellas,
This is what I was saying earlier about the rule of the stop loss. Someone wrote that the AF won't release folks until the Guard/Reserve units have been deactivated. I don't know if it is true, however I am almost certain that my unit will be activated through at least October of 2003. Also, our source at TACC said that it won't take much to go beyond the two year point. Certainly, one would think that world events will dictate what happens, but who knows with the bozos at AFPC. Again, we will have to hang in there and continue the good fight. Good Luck to all,

#1 W


p.s. Mickelson for the Masters title this year, you heard it hear first

 

[Rickinphx]

OPIE01

Interesting background.... ever do a tour at Fort Ord? Just wondering if I know ya

Cheers

 

[ivauir]

Getting the waiver not all that great...

Don't sweat not getting the waiver - if you did you would still be on active duty anyway.

See Welcome to the reserves!

I think we are all in this for quite some time.

 

[xhercdriver]

I've always said the service needs to be very careful about playing the stop-loss card, i.e. they need to be very sure that they actually "need" stop-loss to continue combat ops, not just to hide the glaring holes in their personnel policies.

A couple of big questions come to mind: 1) Would the "war on terrorism" be possible while allowing a more or less "normal" flow of attrition out of the service and newguy training into it, perhaps targeting only highly "critical" specialties for stop-loss, and 2) Could the government/military present a convincing case for the "constitutionality" of stop-loss, if some of the affected groups ever managed to band together and present some sort of "class action suit?"

After all, there is no draft. One can make a case that you cannot be "forced to fight" simply because you happen to be in the service when hostilities begin, while others sit comfortably back at home out of harm's way. There is an assumption, in the "all volunteer force," that you are volunteering for combat duty as well, but there is also the assumption that you can, at some point, decide that you're NOT a volunteer any more, right?

Also, last time I checked, flying was a "voluntary" specialty. All you have to do to be removed from flying status is to request it. Certainly don't want folks flying multi-gazillion-dollar planes who don't really want to do it, right? So, how "critical" is your specialty to the Air Force if you decide you've "lost the edge" and toss those wings on the table? How does the Air Force justify keeping an EX-pilot on stop-loss, when they are letting the medical specialists (who are also pretty critically undermanned across the board) leave?

Now, probably, it would never come to this kind of "labor/legal action" scenario, since military pilots are generally patriotic enough and concerned enough about how they are "viewed" that they'll probably just salute smartly and fly on, rather than risk undertaking some sort of "distasteful" court battle that might make them "look bad" even if they won (which I suspect they would, "freedom" being what it is).

But if I was the Air Force, I'd be very careful about how I used a "manning tool" that is only marginally constitutional at best, difficult to defend in the face of the almost total lack of the use of other tools such as selective service and formal declarations of war. Just how do you tell an American citizen that he must remain in what amounts to "conscripted service" beyond his agreed-upon commitment, when you allow his fellow servicemen to leave? Might take a few years to get there, but I'll bet the Supreme Court would have a field day with it

Wiser to save such a tool for a "real" war, instead of using it every time you get caught with your pants down for not having a clue how to manage the rated force.

 

[Draginass]

It's sad that we've sunk to the point that we can't kick the s*** out of a some tribal ragheads, even with complete air supremacy, without having to tap heavily into the Reserve and ANG, AND invoke stop-loss AND bring back retirees. BTW, the Air Staff SAW this shortfall plain and clear 7 years ago. What would happen if we had a well equipped and well-led enemy?

 

[pilot141]

NEO,
Heard a rumor of AETC and AMC talking, but this rumor comes from the AETC side of the house. Supposedly AETC is ticked that AMC isn't releasing many MWS guys to come to the white jets, forcing AETC into a manning problem. AETC plans to fix this by not approving any stop-loss waivers for guys going back to MWS units, but at the same time approving waivers for guys going into AETC units. Time will tell - there are a couple of guys on base waiting on waivers, one going back to the tube of pain, another staying with the Tone.

If the contortions and double-dealing are this deep, how can AFPC claim that stop-loss is not a tool?

Glad I escaped when I did, and this is one reservist who will be a dot when stop-loss ends! One threat of a two-year Global Hawk job is enough to scare me off!

 

[Rock]

They can stop loss my butt into the next century if they'll let me do what I've been training to do for the last 12 years. I'm sitting in two pools, and would still rather kill the terrorists under my bomb pipper than the ones trying to break into my cockpit. The airlines are great, but they seem to be willing to wait. Good. We've got a more important job to do.

 

[trueblue]

Question for Beernear et al:

Beernear, you brought up an interesting concern earlier regarding 7 day opt of new PCS orders. I am on the VML and am expecting orders any day now for a Fall 2002 report NLT date. My original committment date is Oct 2002. What ARE my options?? I want to get out, and have no intentions of incurring extra committment associated with a PCS move. Can I 7 day opt still with stop loss? Surely, they can keep me from getting out for the time being with stop loss, but can they make me move and thus sign on for an additional 3 years??!
A little background which may explain my ignorance...I am a previous MWS C-141 guy now at a Navy AETC base training dudes in T-34s...very little AF influence here and very little places to go to get answers...6 mos to go on original get out date with no DOS established yet. Please help with advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[Caveman]

xhercdriver wrote:

"But if I was the Air Force, I'd be very careful about how I used a "manning tool" that is only marginally constitutional at best, difficult to defend in the face of the almost total lack of the use of other tools such as selective service and formal declarations of war. Just how do you tell an American citizen that he must remain in what amounts to "conscripted service" beyond his agreed-upon commitment, when you allow his fellow servicemen to leave? Might take a few years to get there, but I'll bet the Supreme Court would have a field day with it."

Stop loss is a part of a contractual obligation that was voluntarily agreed to. It may be intefering with someone's immediate future but everybody affected by it knew or should have known that it was a possibility before they signed on the dotted line.

It sucks to be prevented from moving on and it also sucks that the AF is using it as a substitute for realistic and effective manning policies. But it is legal, and I think it would be awful difficult when there is a declared 'war' going onto prove that they are using it just as a manning tool.

 

[Spur]

trueblue, my understanding is that if you 7-day opt, you are refusing the additional committment associated with training/pcs. The AF can still send you to training/pcs you, but you will not incur a committment. Prior to stop-loss, the typical 7-day opter with more than 1 year left of ADSC would be very vulnerable to a short tour remote PCS, but their ADSC would not be extended.

 

[Rickinphx]

PCS while stop lossed

Guys give a good look at the reg but here is my take on what I read. If you are stop lossed and either are retirement eligible or have served your commitment, they flag your records and you ARE NOT eligible for PCS. Now is that 100% no, but it means if for some reason you do get NON VOL to another assigment, as soon as the stop loss is removed you can retire/separate with your commitment unfullfilled for training. Interesting that there was mention of a 7 day opt in these threads.

Anyways, that was my take. I asked that question and checked the reg just in case my waiver wasnt approved. Go and check at the MPF and I would recommend talking to someone above a two stripper.

Cheers

 

[zulua320]

Trueblue,
We got the assignments road show yesterday, so this should be the real deal:
Yes, you can 7 day opt during stop loss. You'll establish a date of separation from the 7 day opt. If stop loss ends prior to this DOS then you get out normally. If stop loss is still in effect then you remain in place until stop loss ends then get out. They can't make you pick up any more ADSC.
A better option is to put in you papers NOW, prior to getting an assignment. This will drop you from the assignment pool and will prevent you from having to 7 day opt. It gives you more options in case you have to stay in since pulling you papers from a 7 day opt lets the AF send you to whatever they'd like and you can't refuse (ie you can't 7 day opt a second time).
Hope that's clear as mud.

 

[AlbieF15]

I'm thinkin' like Zulu on this one--I avoided having to do a 7 day opt by putting in separation papers.

Pensacola and FLYING sound like a good combo, even if it is primary training. If you can stay there--you don't have the stress of a move and you hopefully stay current flying. I'd do whatever it took to just sit in place until this period is over. Obviously, if you are miserable where you are--disregard all the above.

 

[trueblue]

Thanks for the advice!

Thanks all for the words of wisdom...no, Albie, I'm not miserable to say the least in Pensacola. In fact, I've loved every bit of the past 10 years I've served and have no regrets...I'm just itchin' to start at JB as soon as possible and don't know how long they will wait for me past my projected (without stop loss) availability date. Since I am barely over 6 months out from my ADSC, I really wasn't in a hurry to put "papers" in to establish a DOS until I absolutely had to, but, zulua320, you brought up an excellent point about not being able to 7 day opt twice, and if you're sure, then go ahead and get a DOS in the system. That's an awesome idea and a good option for me since I now feel like I can burn that inevitable bridge. Again, I just wasn't sure whether or not you could establish a DOS now that stop loss has been in place.

...BTW, any other jetBlue hopefull stop lossed guys/gals? I know there are some out there and I've read the SWA pool list so I know there are a bunch awaiting SW class dates, but haven't heard about jetBlue dudes.