Bad news for AF guys
- Thread starter hiflier
- Start date
stop loss stuff
I have heard from a reliable source that stop loss for pilots will in all likelihood continue through at least September. The same source says that with all going on in Middle East, AF is "toying" with the idea of continuing it for another year. Of course, it will be reviewed every 60 days.
Other rumors are abound that activated guard/reserve units are being told another year might be "tacked" on.
This is not official but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. AF is in a bind. They need activated guard/reserves to augment the missions but they can't end stop loss until guard/reserves are deactivated.
I have heard from a reliable source that stop loss for pilots will in all likelihood continue through at least September. The same source says that with all going on in Middle East, AF is "toying" with the idea of continuing it for another year. Of course, it will be reviewed every 60 days.
Other rumors are abound that activated guard/reserve units are being told another year might be "tacked" on.
This is not official but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens. AF is in a bind. They need activated guard/reserves to augment the missions but they can't end stop loss until guard/reserves are deactivated.
Stop-loss message
The new message has been released but has not been updated on the AFPC website yet.
Boots
Today's Air Force News More AF News
Air Force releases several specialties from Stop-Loss
Note All stories and images on this site are in the public domain and do not require copyright release. Please credit all photos to U.S. Air Force.
Air Force releases several specialties from Stop-Loss
by Master Sgt. Dorothy Goepel
Air Force Print News
04/09/02 - WASHINGTON -- Air Force officials announced April 9 the release of several Air Force Specialty Codes from Stop-Loss, a Defense Department program designed to retain members of the armed forces beyond established dates of separation or retirement.
The announcement comes as a result of an Air Force 60-day review and applies across the board to the active duty, Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard forces, according to Lt. Col. Jan Middleton, chief of promotion, evaluation and separation policy at the Pentagon.
“Our exit plan calls for a gradual drawdown from Stop-Loss, which means we want to continue to release AFSCs with each review as long as we are able to maintain sufficient forces to meet mission requirements,” she said.
The officer career fields released from stop-loss restrictions, effective May 1, are: 32E, 33S, 35P, 42F, 42G, 42N, 42P, 42S, 42T, 43P, 43Y, 44B, 44F, 44G, 44J, 44K, 44N, 44P, 44R, 44S, 44T, 44U, 45E, 45G, 45N, 45U, 47E, 47G, 47H, 47K, 47P, 47S, 51J, 61S, 62E, 63A and 64P.
The enlisted career fields released from stop-loss restrictions, effective May 1, are: 1T0X0, 2A1X0, 2A390, 2S0X2, 3C1X1, 3C1X2, 3E1X1, 3E3X1, 3E6X1, 3S1X0, 3S1X1, 3S2X0, 3S2X1, 3V000, 3V090, 3V0X1, 3V0X2, 3V0X3, 4A0X0, 4A0X1, 4B0XX, 4C0X0, 4C0X1, 4D0X0, 4D0X1, 4M0X0, 4M0X1, 4N1X1, 4P0X0, 4P0X1, 4R0X1, 4T0X0, 4T0X1, 4T0X2, 4T0X3, 4U0X0, 4U0X1, 4V0X0, 4V0X1, 4Y0X0, 4Y0X1, 4Y0X2, 5J0X0, 5J0X1, 6C0X0, 6C0X1, 8A100, 8C000, 8E000, 8G000, 8J000, 8P000, 8P100, 8R000, 8T000, 9A200, 9A300, 9C000 and 9G000.
During each cyclical review, Middleton explained, officials at the major commands, at the Air Staff and Secretariat, and at the Air Force Personnel Center review all AFSCs for possible release.
“We review current manning and authorizations, the number of people deployed for operations Noble Eagle and Enduring Freedom, the number of Air Reserve Center personnel mobilized, and overall health of the career fields,” Middleton said. “We will conduct subsequent reviews every 60 days to allow individuals some stability and allow our requirements to solidify.”
Members who are deployed in support of operations Noble Eagle and Enduring Freedom, or related operations, and Reserve and Guard components who are voluntarily or involuntarily on active duty in support of these operations or related operations, will not be released until they return from deployment or are demobilized, officials said.
Officials emphasized that Stop-Loss is devised to meet all operational requirements in addition to Operation Noble Eagle and Operation Enduring Freedom. For instance, they point out, the Armed Forces will continue to conduct operations in Southwest Asia.
Some military members have the misperception that Stop-Loss is being used as a manning tool, Middleton said.
“Though it’s easy to make that assumption,” Middleton said, “it is absolutely not true. Manning is certainly one of the factors taken into consideration, but it is looked at in terms of what is needed to meet current mission requirements.”
Stop-Loss does not mean that service members are prohibited from retiring, separating or being discharged. A waiver of stop-loss status may be granted based on specific circumstances, officials said.
“We really want to do right by our service members,” Middleton said. “Many families had to put their plans on hold when Stop-Loss was implemented. We are grateful for their service and their sacrifices. We are trying to balance their needs with our commitment to operational requirements.
“The career fields that we have recommended for release from Stop-Loss are still subject to world events. If world events change significantly, we will have to re-evaluate our decisions.”
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The new message has been released but has not been updated on the AFPC website yet.
Boots
Today's Air Force News More AF News
Air Force releases several specialties from Stop-Loss
Note All stories and images on this site are in the public domain and do not require copyright release. Please credit all photos to U.S. Air Force.
Air Force releases several specialties from Stop-Loss
by Master Sgt. Dorothy Goepel
Air Force Print News
04/09/02 - WASHINGTON -- Air Force officials announced April 9 the release of several Air Force Specialty Codes from Stop-Loss, a Defense Department program designed to retain members of the armed forces beyond established dates of separation or retirement.
The announcement comes as a result of an Air Force 60-day review and applies across the board to the active duty, Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard forces, according to Lt. Col. Jan Middleton, chief of promotion, evaluation and separation policy at the Pentagon.
“Our exit plan calls for a gradual drawdown from Stop-Loss, which means we want to continue to release AFSCs with each review as long as we are able to maintain sufficient forces to meet mission requirements,” she said.
The officer career fields released from stop-loss restrictions, effective May 1, are: 32E, 33S, 35P, 42F, 42G, 42N, 42P, 42S, 42T, 43P, 43Y, 44B, 44F, 44G, 44J, 44K, 44N, 44P, 44R, 44S, 44T, 44U, 45E, 45G, 45N, 45U, 47E, 47G, 47H, 47K, 47P, 47S, 51J, 61S, 62E, 63A and 64P.
The enlisted career fields released from stop-loss restrictions, effective May 1, are: 1T0X0, 2A1X0, 2A390, 2S0X2, 3C1X1, 3C1X2, 3E1X1, 3E3X1, 3E6X1, 3S1X0, 3S1X1, 3S2X0, 3S2X1, 3V000, 3V090, 3V0X1, 3V0X2, 3V0X3, 4A0X0, 4A0X1, 4B0XX, 4C0X0, 4C0X1, 4D0X0, 4D0X1, 4M0X0, 4M0X1, 4N1X1, 4P0X0, 4P0X1, 4R0X1, 4T0X0, 4T0X1, 4T0X2, 4T0X3, 4U0X0, 4U0X1, 4V0X0, 4V0X1, 4Y0X0, 4Y0X1, 4Y0X2, 5J0X0, 5J0X1, 6C0X0, 6C0X1, 8A100, 8C000, 8E000, 8G000, 8J000, 8P000, 8P100, 8R000, 8T000, 9A200, 9A300, 9C000 and 9G000.
During each cyclical review, Middleton explained, officials at the major commands, at the Air Staff and Secretariat, and at the Air Force Personnel Center review all AFSCs for possible release.
“We review current manning and authorizations, the number of people deployed for operations Noble Eagle and Enduring Freedom, the number of Air Reserve Center personnel mobilized, and overall health of the career fields,” Middleton said. “We will conduct subsequent reviews every 60 days to allow individuals some stability and allow our requirements to solidify.”
Members who are deployed in support of operations Noble Eagle and Enduring Freedom, or related operations, and Reserve and Guard components who are voluntarily or involuntarily on active duty in support of these operations or related operations, will not be released until they return from deployment or are demobilized, officials said.
Officials emphasized that Stop-Loss is devised to meet all operational requirements in addition to Operation Noble Eagle and Operation Enduring Freedom. For instance, they point out, the Armed Forces will continue to conduct operations in Southwest Asia.
Some military members have the misperception that Stop-Loss is being used as a manning tool, Middleton said.
“Though it’s easy to make that assumption,” Middleton said, “it is absolutely not true. Manning is certainly one of the factors taken into consideration, but it is looked at in terms of what is needed to meet current mission requirements.”
Stop-Loss does not mean that service members are prohibited from retiring, separating or being discharged. A waiver of stop-loss status may be granted based on specific circumstances, officials said.
“We really want to do right by our service members,” Middleton said. “Many families had to put their plans on hold when Stop-Loss was implemented. We are grateful for their service and their sacrifices. We are trying to balance their needs with our commitment to operational requirements.
“The career fields that we have recommended for release from Stop-Loss are still subject to world events. If world events change significantly, we will have to re-evaluate our decisions.”
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2001: Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
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I fear there will be a huge vacuum
What scares me the most is that no-one up top is looking at the fact that when they do end stop Loss, Hundreds of Pilots are going to get out at once. Instead of letting guys get out in the normal flow monthly. When they figure out there is going to be this hugh vacuum producted, the AF is going to continue stop loss to prevent the vacuum. And the Guard/Reserve is even going to have as many guys punching out, which will in-turn create a bigger vacuum in the active duty ranks as active duty pilots will have more opportunities to get Guard/Reserve jobs.
This crisis management of Pilots will never end. Only get worse I fear.
What scares me the most is that no-one up top is looking at the fact that when they do end stop Loss, Hundreds of Pilots are going to get out at once. Instead of letting guys get out in the normal flow monthly. When they figure out there is going to be this hugh vacuum producted, the AF is going to continue stop loss to prevent the vacuum. And the Guard/Reserve is even going to have as many guys punching out, which will in-turn create a bigger vacuum in the active duty ranks as active duty pilots will have more opportunities to get Guard/Reserve jobs.
This crisis management of Pilots will never end. Only get worse I fear.
OPEO1
Tell me you're not surprised the AF pilot manning folks can't see past the end of their noses. It is a mess, and unfortunately will be for a while.
I don't think day one of the Stop Loss being over, we'll see a mass exodus. Unless the airline picture changes and everyone is hiring again. Even then there won't be classes ready and waiting for all the military folks. Yes a number of folks will bolt to the reserve and guard jobs that might still be waiting for them...but I'm guessing it'll take around 4 months for all the stop-lossees to actually get out.
Sept 11 did wonders for retention, but in a few years the AF will be back were is was a year ago...hurtin'.
See
Tell me you're not surprised the AF pilot manning folks can't see past the end of their noses. It is a mess, and unfortunately will be for a while.
I don't think day one of the Stop Loss being over, we'll see a mass exodus. Unless the airline picture changes and everyone is hiring again. Even then there won't be classes ready and waiting for all the military folks. Yes a number of folks will bolt to the reserve and guard jobs that might still be waiting for them...but I'm guessing it'll take around 4 months for all the stop-lossees to actually get out.
Sept 11 did wonders for retention, but in a few years the AF will be back were is was a year ago...hurtin'.
See
Here's my take on the mass exodus:
The day Stop Loss ends you'll see a ton of Guard/Reserve guys who already have airline jobs "git while the gittin's good" and drop their papers. This, in turn, will create a vaccum in the Guard/Reserve that will pull pilots off of active duty who are willing to trough for a while waiting for the airlines to pick up. Combine this with the expected resurgance of hirining as the economy recovers and by next spring AF pilot manning will be as bad as ever.
My $.03 (gas prices going up).
Z
The day Stop Loss ends you'll see a ton of Guard/Reserve guys who already have airline jobs "git while the gittin's good" and drop their papers. This, in turn, will create a vaccum in the Guard/Reserve that will pull pilots off of active duty who are willing to trough for a while waiting for the airlines to pick up. Combine this with the expected resurgance of hirining as the economy recovers and by next spring AF pilot manning will be as bad as ever.
My $.03 (gas prices going up).
Z
ivauir
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don't forget ...
... AFPC clearly using stop loss as a retention tool (despite protests to the contrary) and this kind of bad faith action does cause people to lose faith. This stop loss makes as much sense as the bank did
I love the idea of the Air Force, I am amazed at what it can do, and I deeply respect those who do it. But the cubicle dwellers in Randolph need to learn how to treat people: too many of the good ones keep getting out.
Another $.03 for ya
... AFPC clearly using stop loss as a retention tool (despite protests to the contrary) and this kind of bad faith action does cause people to lose faith. This stop loss makes as much sense as the bank did
I love the idea of the Air Force, I am amazed at what it can do, and I deeply respect those who do it. But the cubicle dwellers in Randolph need to learn how to treat people: too many of the good ones keep getting out.
Another $.03 for ya
Bluesuiter
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Looks like a duck!
Stop loss isn't a manning tool? Why do we have three guys in my squadron with jobs waiting for them on the outside being "stop lossed" while the AF lets three more guys who are staying in continue their AF careers and go on to school slots and non-mws flying? I thought it was important to keep these guys around to help in the "war" effort. I wouldn't want this silly war to get in the way of a prosperous AF career. In one breath they tell us they need us around to fly and then they let guys go to non-flying jobs!
Stop loss isn't a manning tool? Why do we have three guys in my squadron with jobs waiting for them on the outside being "stop lossed" while the AF lets three more guys who are staying in continue their AF careers and go on to school slots and non-mws flying? I thought it was important to keep these guys around to help in the "war" effort. I wouldn't want this silly war to get in the way of a prosperous AF career. In one breath they tell us they need us around to fly and then they let guys go to non-flying jobs!
New statement from AETC Commander
My OG told me this morning that the AECT Commander put out a message saying he will only grant a waiver to Stop Loss if the pilot is going to a Guard or Reserve unit.
My OG signed a Stop Loss waiver request for me so I could retire. He doesn't know if the AETC CC's comments only apply to less than 20 year pilots that are just seperating and not retiring or if the AETC CC is planning to hold all retirees on active duty until Stop Loss is over and just let out <20 year pilots who are going to the Guard/Reserve.
If the plan is to hold Retirees, then I was right when I said that when I hit 20 years and decided to retire that I lost my TEAM PLAYER status.
My OG told me this morning that the AECT Commander put out a message saying he will only grant a waiver to Stop Loss if the pilot is going to a Guard or Reserve unit.
My OG signed a Stop Loss waiver request for me so I could retire. He doesn't know if the AETC CC's comments only apply to less than 20 year pilots that are just seperating and not retiring or if the AETC CC is planning to hold all retirees on active duty until Stop Loss is over and just let out <20 year pilots who are going to the Guard/Reserve.
If the plan is to hold Retirees, then I was right when I said that when I hit 20 years and decided to retire that I lost my TEAM PLAYER status.
Where are the facts?
I noticed that the press release was very adamant in stating that Stop Loss isn't a manning tool, but the provided absolutely no facts to back up that statement. You'd think if it was true that could actually provide some evidence supporting it.
I noticed that the press release was very adamant in stating that Stop Loss isn't a manning tool, but the provided absolutely no facts to back up that statement. You'd think if it was true that could actually provide some evidence supporting it.
#1 Windmilling
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Hey All,
I am in the reserves as well and came off of active duty in Sept. I got laid off Oct 1st (I was working for a major while on terminal leave ). At any rate, our unit has been told to expect two years of activation. That gives us 18 months left. If it is true, that stop loss won't be lifted until reserve/guard units deactivate, you can count on a long stop loss. As of last month, some two star at TACC told us that there was no one in the pipeline to replace us and to expect at least a 2 year activation. He continued to explain that we are in this for the long haul and that it won't take much to keep us going beyond two years!
I can see a lot of guys bailing from the reserves when this is all said and done. Of course, we also have people going back on active duty. It all depends on which airline you were flying with before getting activated! All the US Air guys are hoping for an activation for as long as possible! I stopped trying to figure out AFPC after my non-vol tour. I told them I would take a Tweet so that another guy in my squadron wouldn't have to take it. Nope, I got non-volled to the Herk and the other guy had to take the Tweet. So, two of us got nothing and both got out. He is now flying for Fed Ex and I am furloughed!
See ya, let's hang in there together!
-W
I am in the reserves as well and came off of active duty in Sept. I got laid off Oct 1st (I was working for a major while on terminal leave
). At any rate, our unit has been told to expect two years of activation. That gives us 18 months left. If it is true, that stop loss won't be lifted until reserve/guard units deactivate, you can count on a long stop loss. As of last month, some two star at TACC told us that there was no one in the pipeline to replace us and to expect at least a 2 year activation. He continued to explain that we are in this for the long haul and that it won't take much to keep us going beyond two years! I can see a lot of guys bailing from the reserves when this is all said and done. Of course, we also have people going back on active duty. It all depends on which airline you were flying with before getting activated! All the US Air guys are hoping for an activation for as long as possible! I stopped trying to figure out AFPC after my non-vol tour. I told them I would take a Tweet so that another guy in my squadron wouldn't have to take it. Nope, I got non-volled to the Herk and the other guy had to take the Tweet. So, two of us got nothing and both got out. He is now flying for Fed Ex and I am furloughed!
See ya, let's hang in there together!
-W
RueterF16
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Manning Tool
I think you'll know for sure that stop loss is a maning tool when the following happens...
they start granting more waivers on a case by case basis.
This way they don't have to drop stop loss totally, can let some guys go and continue to train. When their numbers come up, they'll eventually let the guard boys and girls go home, and then they won't have such a mass exodus at one time.
I hope it doesn't happen, just one scenario.
Best of luck ..
I think you'll know for sure that stop loss is a maning tool when the following happens...
they start granting more waivers on a case by case basis.
This way they don't have to drop stop loss totally, can let some guys go and continue to train. When their numbers come up, they'll eventually let the guard boys and girls go home, and then they won't have such a mass exodus at one time.
I hope it doesn't happen, just one scenario.
Best of luck ..
Spur
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Padre, check out www.baseops.net for guard/reserve jobs. Lots of herk units out there hiring...
As far as the end of stop loss, I think I read that AFPC is planning on ending it in stages, dont ask me how, so as to test the retention numbers before it is fully ended. Proof positive stop loss is a retention tool.
You know it's bad when T-37 part-time reservists are being non-vol'd for 1+ yrs to "fly" Global Hawk.
As far as the end of stop loss, I think I read that AFPC is planning on ending it in stages, dont ask me how, so as to test the retention numbers before it is fully ended. Proof positive stop loss is a retention tool.
You know it's bad when T-37 part-time reservists are being non-vol'd for 1+ yrs to "fly" Global Hawk.
Visceral
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I love that double-speak that ebbs from the Taj Mahal:
"Some military members have the misperception that Stop-Loss is being used as a manning tool, Middleton said.
“Though it’s easy to make that assumption,” Middleton said, “it is absolutely not true. Manning is certainly one of the factors taken into consideration, but it is looked at in terms of what is needed to meet current mission requirements.”
If manning is taken into consideration for meeting mission requirements(of course it is), then Stop Loss IS a tool. This is all preaching to the choir I know. I wish they would call a few guys from the squadrons up to Capital Hill to speak about some of these issues. I doubt any 11s or 12s will be on the list this year with the talk about the Guard and Reserves staying activated. This is going to get ugly.
"Some military members have the misperception that Stop-Loss is being used as a manning tool, Middleton said.
“Though it’s easy to make that assumption,” Middleton said, “it is absolutely not true. Manning is certainly one of the factors taken into consideration, but it is looked at in terms of what is needed to meet current mission requirements.”
If manning is taken into consideration for meeting mission requirements(of course it is), then Stop Loss IS a tool. This is all preaching to the choir I know. I wish they would call a few guys from the squadrons up to Capital Hill to speak about some of these issues. I doubt any 11s or 12s will be on the list this year with the talk about the Guard and Reserves staying activated. This is going to get ugly.
ETXflyer
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Check this out
I posted this on another thread, but thought some of y'all might get a kick out of seeing exactly what the AFSC's were that they realeased. Here are just a few, but most of them are med AFSCs.
These are just the officers:
42F-podiatrist
42T-occupational therapist
47P-prosthodontist (i don't even know what this is)
45N-otorhinolaryngobgist (or this)
45G-gynecologist
44P-psychologist
35P-public affairs
42S-clinical social worker
61S-Scientist
47G-Dentist
44J-Clinical Geneticist
45U-Urologist
51J-Judge Advocate
And the list continues, but it's more of the same. Now I understand why they made us wait an extra 10 days for the message. There must've been a lot of deliberation about letting all the gynecologists and clinical geneticists out!
ETX
I posted this on another thread, but thought some of y'all might get a kick out of seeing exactly what the AFSC's were that they realeased. Here are just a few, but most of them are med AFSCs.
These are just the officers:
42F-podiatrist
42T-occupational therapist
47P-prosthodontist (i don't even know what this is)
45N-otorhinolaryngobgist (or this)
45G-gynecologist
44P-psychologist
35P-public affairs
42S-clinical social worker
61S-Scientist
47G-Dentist
44J-Clinical Geneticist
45U-Urologist
51J-Judge Advocate
And the list continues, but it's more of the same. Now I understand why they made us wait an extra 10 days for the message. There must've been a lot of deliberation about letting all the gynecologists and clinical geneticists out!
ETX