B6 PEA Amendment

[Lake Alice]

For every one Tard on this board we have 50 or so "just happy to be here" types. Given our current situation with retirement, 5 documents and scope I'd say the "happy to be here" types have caused substantially more damage to this pilot group.

 

[Blue Dude]

Fiftytard. Can you tell me, outside of a CBA, what you would want that would make you stop complaining. If we had the best retirement and health bennies in the industry would you still complain.

OK, even if we stipulate that we have the best pay, retirement, working conditions, etc., that the industry has ever seen, and it's all guaranteed for life, free laptops, Kew shuttle, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam, it doesn't mean squat because we're naked after a transactional event. A CBA means different things for different people, but what it means for most is a process whereby we're not utterly exposed, leaderless, voiceless, powerless if we're involved in a TE. No, they're not foolproof, far from it, and there are plenty of situations when a CBA isn't worth the paper it's printed on. That doesn't mean that we can safely ignore the requirement for one.

A CBA is career insurance, period. Sometimes you're in a bad enough situation that no insurance can make you whole, or even standing, but there are plenty of other situations when you'd be a fool not to have it. Right now, we're fools, one fender bender away from losing it all.

 

[Lake Alice]

Well said. Why Fox and his cronies think that Jetblue is going to take care of us is beyond me. They haven't done so in 12 years so why would they going forward. We haven't furloughed because we haven't needed to. Our fleet has grown because we needed to and not to help with pilots career growth. We have charged our employees at least 20% more for insurance than any other carrier. We have provided our employees with an 8-20% shortfall in retirement. We have continued to make our employees pay for their own health insurance while on LTD. We have continued to make sure in the event of a TE our employees are responsible for paying their own legal fees.
Personally I don't see where all the blind faith in Jetblue comes from.

 

[fifty30retard]

Fiftytard. Can you tell me, outside of a CBA, what you would want that would make you stop complaining. If we had the best retirement and health bennies in the industry would you still complain. I would bet you would. It seems that a majority of you guys will just complain about everything and anything. I saw a guy on blue pilots was complaining about the fact that the company might give us our computers for free when we go to IPADS. Complaining about getting a free laptop. Are you kidding me.

Tard you do more harm than good in the approach you are taking.

With a CBA, I will be content. It will give me, my family, and my fellow pilots legal standing in court, collectively. My only complaint then will be having to go on a four day trip with the likes of you, someone who knows nothing of our pilot history, or anything about how airline managers manipulate you on a daily basis.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Well then teach me. Explain airline history to me. All of the history not just your version. I would say I have a pretty good understanding of airline history, but I am always trying to learn more. Here is the thing though. Todays airlines are not the airlines of 20 years ago. The unions aren't the unions of 20 years ago. What I do know is that in the last 10 years I have seen unionized carriers destroy a lot of careers and family's. I havn't seen B6 destroy even one. I have seen CBA's get torn apart and a lot of concessions taken. Other than the move of our premium trigger to 78 hrs from 70 I have only seen B6 pay scales get better not worse. So teach us. Here is the thing though. You want a union so bad because you are scared of the what might happen in the future, not what has happened in the past. In this case a history lesson might not be your best route. I am always open to change and a better way of thinking and opinion. So rather than just complaining and saying the same thing over and over again, tell me something new in a rational manner and persuade me.

 

[Lake Alice]

I'll being up a few points:

Retirement. we are 8-20% behind in retirement. ERISA laws prevent Jetblue from separating employee groups retirement. There is no work around unlike the lies Jetblue spreads unless we have a CBA.
LTD. If you transition from STD to LTD you now pay for your health care for 18 months. For a family, consisting of a husband, wife and child, thats $1300 a month. So your getting 60% or 60 2/3% of your pay and now 1/3 of that goes to insurance.
Sick/vacation time. Not separated. If you have a spouse that works and a young kids how do you accumulate 200 hours. You get sick, kids get sick. Someone has to stay home.
Pay. I won't even touch that.
Health benefits. Why do we pay 20% minimum more than everyone else.

Look, I'm not as angry as Tard and we can go 'round and 'round about his communication methods but he is right. Jetblue is a horrible place when it comes to retirement and benefits. The pay is questionable if you are willing to fly 900-1000 hours per year. That one is personal preference.
I'm going through the disability issues now and compared to our peers this place is absolute joke. It's truly disappointing. When I came here I bought into the idea that we were different and we took care of our own. What we take care of is the executives and thats it.

Lastly and the most important issue is nothing is contractual. We have a PINS email showing what our disability is. That's it. They can simply send out another PINS email next week changing it back.

A CBA is the only way we can negotiate proper benefits. The pro-company pilots at Jetblue don't even want you to have a say if you voted for the union. Call navarre, crane, the bob's and ask them.

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you think the disability thing doesn't affect you then you will be sorely mistaken. I am very young, very healthy and this freak accident has reaffirmed my beliefs about Jetblue. Call it corny but its heartbreaking to know this company can be this disingenuous.

 

[fifty30retard]

Well then teach me. Explain airline history to me. All of the history not just your version. I would say I have a pretty good understanding of airline history, but I am always trying to learn more. Here is the thing though. Todays airlines are not the airlines of 20 years ago. The unions aren't the unions of 20 years ago. What I do know is that in the last 10 years I have seen unionized carriers destroy a lot of careers and family's. I havn't seen B6 destroy even one. I have seen CBA's get torn apart and a lot of concessions taken. Other than the move of our premium trigger to 78 hrs from 70 I have only seen B6 pay scales get better not worse. So teach us. Here is the thing though. You want a union so bad because you are scared of the what might happen in the future, not what has happened in the past. In this case a history lesson might not be your best route. I am always open to change and a better way of thinking and opinion. So rather than just complaining and saying the same thing over and over again, tell me something new in a rational manner and persuade me.

Economics kills airlines, not ALPA. Major airlines lost 25% of revenue post 9/11, when we were attacked. They adjusted by farming out flying jobs to cheaper labor, you. Unions provide legal standing, companies provide jobs. You have a job, but zero legal standing, and you are vulnerable. If you signed your "documents", you just gave away your one year's pay poison pill, and allowed 10% of the ASMs to be farmed out, that's 53 E170s on 37,000 total B6 ASMs. You just gave away 5 years of upgrades, because you trusted a manager.

Oh by the way, airline seats never disappear, they just get absorbed into another airline.

 

[$$$4nothin]

I understand that Tard. Other than assumption and paranoia what makes you so sure that we are going to be farming out all of this flying.

 

[linepilot]

I understand that Tard. Other than assumption and paranoia what makes you so sure that we are going to be farming out all of this flying.

Trust....

....how quaint.

Is your family down with your Norman Rockwell way of thinking?

 

[$$$4nothin]

Not trust per say. However statements are being made with absolutely no factual information. I am just curious if there is any factual information behind the statements that we are going to farm out 10% of our ASM's.