B6 Hiring

[Andy]

How about the last several years before a few weeks ago?

True dat. And NEVER get blinded by the money. QOL is worth more than an extra 30 pieces of silver.

Since I started flying with CAL, I've noticed that our pilots are in the worst physical shape of any pilot group. I'm going to chalk a lot of that up to crappy work rules.

 

[Splert]

I don't think we have the worst system, the 35 for 25 rule has worked well for me, but we do have the worst vacation bidding in the industry. The fact that we don't have rounds of vacation bidding is unacceptable.

What we really should have is a seperation of PTO and sick time, or a boatload more PTO then we currently get.

We have the worst system - PERIOD.

2 weeks are granted per pilot vs 4 or 5 weeks for pilots with 12 plus years seniority. Very soon 1/2 the pilot list will have 10 years seniority and jetblue only allows 2 weeks instead of 4 weeks per pilot per year per pilot. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SLOTS OF VACATION. The placement of the vacation weeks is ENTIRELY the discretion of the DR. The result is about 25% of the summer vacation of our peers.

35 for 25 is a distraction. PTO accrual should be better but with about 25% of the vacation available in summer it really does not matter.

Spend about 20 minutes a review ALA or SWAPA. The CBA is on the PVC website. It is up to you to educate yourself because flight operations has no incentive to do it for you.

 

[johnsonrod]

I realize there is no decision to make until they offer a job, but I just can't see whether it is worthwhile to invest the time, money, and energy into even interviewing. I freely admit that I have golden handcuffs. Since any of their domiciles are a two leg commute, we would quickly plan to move. Until such time that I could move to a domicile our family costs would increase due to the need for a crashpad and transportation -- all while income is decreased for at least the next 5 years.

What makes it difficult for me is that I really "WANT" to interview. The airline sounds terrific, the ability to bid schedules, the ability to trip trade, fly more, fly less.... Whatever you need. (I'm essentially on-call with a schedule now). But I am having a difficult time justifying the big paycut and decrease in QOL. It's kind of like the kid in me wants to jump on it and start a new adventure. The grown up in me says it is the wrong choice. It seems like the very definition of golden handcuffs...

On the one hand, I don't want to be 50, 55, 60 years old here and have them pull the rug out from under me...
On the other, I wouldn't want to be in a crashpad in Queens wondering what I was thinking and working with Captains who tell me I am nuts to have given up what I have.

No decisions to make until you have a job offer in hand... But what do you do when the decision to accept an interview is one you really can't reconcile?

FA,

Just apply to UAL, Delta and Spirit and see how that goes. All three should see growth in the next few years. UAL and Spirit are hiring quite a bit these days - make sure you network with pilots there and get your apps in...

Given the situation at JB with their terrible health coverage (worst among a major?) and zero union protection, why even bother? One JB friend of mine calls JB the "Wal-Mart" of airlines. UAL and Delta should be hiring more in the coming years. Meanwhile, don't torture yourself over the subjunctive WHAT IF scenarios. You sound desperate. JB is currently nothing I would leave your current gig for...............

 

[FurloughedAgain]

One JB friend of mine calls JB the "Wal-Mart" of airlines. :

This is kinda amusing for a few reasons...

Anyway, I think I will decline the interview. I just can't get excited enough to adequately prepare. Best to give the opportunity to someone who really wants / needs it.

 

[BeachBummer]

How about the last several years before a few weeks ago?

YUUUUUP!

Jetblue has been basing it's pilot pay structure for the last decade off of bankrupt and concessionary contracts, your right. To boot, they haven't even kept up with the promised average of that.

Keep that glass half full though brotha.

 

[Flyer1015]

"at" As in at the bottom of the list commuting to reserve and was a response to a claim that QOL is better here than as a senior RJ CA.

That claim was silly most likely a new hire will be on the 190 in JFK or BOS and committing to reserve.

Then the poster responded that if the time is right they would only be on reserve for a month and then have 18 days off.

Which of course is silly since the bottom line holder have 12, 13, and 14 days off with 74ish credit.

I fumbled the key stroke but you transposed an answer to one post into a completely different post.

Good luck. Hope it all turns out well for anyone. Watch out for the juicers who like to point to anyone pointing out the real shortfalls as bitter and never happy.

Ok, you wrote sf and I took that to mean SFO and therefore another airline. At VX, once you're off reserve, you pretty much jump into 17-18 day off lines.


Regardless of airline, even Jetblue, reserve FO has better career prospects than any regional lifer pilot. Th regional landscape is really going to change for the worst in the next 5 years. Those 50 seaters are going to disappear, and mainline TAs require parking 50 seaters and caps on 70/90 seater RJs.

 

[Smarta$$]

YUUUUUP!

Jetblue has been basing it's pilot pay structure for the last decade off of bankrupt and concessionary contracts, your right. To boot, they haven't even kept up with the promised average of that.

Keep that glass half full though brotha.

Why is the world either BLACK or WHITE with you. He said he just looked at the pay scale and said theirs was way higher. They just got a new contract within weeks. But they were bringing our rates down through the pay review average process for years.

It took Continental pilots more than a decade to obtain those rates, but he only wants to point out that they are higher now. Not to mention they have a worldwide widebody network and are the largest airline in the world....

Basically, most of you guys going nuts on here have significantly benefited from our low cost, high growth model. You now have significant seniority, all of you, in part from taking a job with less than average compensation. But now that you have achieved significant seniority, you don't care is significantly higher costs slow down the growth for everyone behind you. You have yours, and now you want the compensation packages of the worlds largest airlines regardless of how that affects those that seek seniority advancement from the growth that YOU enjoyed.

I hate to blow your cover to the world, but you 10 or so extremists are exaggerating the problems we have and making things sound far worse than they are as a strategy to starve jetBlue of new hire\applicants (not working) and embarrass current jetBlue pilots into voting a union (which is coincidentally the main prescription you all cite to fix what ails us).

You all want a union, I get it. I have always leaned that way, but if things were even CLOSE to as bad as you pretend they are, YOU would quit, I would QUIT, the union votes of past would have passed easily.

But alas, you haven't quit.

We have things to address, especially healthcare. But you are engaged in a strategy of starving the beast and embarrassing pilots into voting the way you want. It is too dishonest and too extreme.

You pretend like every problem will be fixed with a union. You pretend like all these union airlines have had a great run, and that they are happy.

I have met THOUSANDS of miserable legacy pilots over the years, all union. They have significant problems, just different ones. I recognize that for all the problems they have had, they have maintained better benefits, but often NOT better pay. Sometimes yes, often NO.

At the end of the day, I will likely vote for a union. But at least I won't be diluding myself and others that we won't still have problems, lose some of the jetBlue that WE enjoy, likely create some new problems we didn't anticipate, but we will probably have better benefits...

But you will still be miserable, that much I guarantee.

To those reading these forums and trying to decide about jetBlue. Read every opinion. They all have something to contribute. I love my job at jetBlue and see a good future here. A union vote will eventually pass here, but if it doesn't, it will be because things are still good enough, despite having terrible healthcare coverage and some other holes in our benefits.

But understand that there are about 10 guys on here that are engaging in a strategy to make it seem FAR worse than it really is, in a concerted effort to starve the company of new applicants, new hires, and to embarrass current JB pilots into voting union. They want a union no matter what, and will tell you that a union here will be perfect, will fix everything that ails us, will create no new problems for us, and that everything at other union majors is so perfect, and they are all so happy with their careers.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Why is the world either BLACK or WHITE with you. He said he just looked at the pay scale and said theirs was way higher. They just got a new contract within weeks. But they were bringing our rates down through the pay review average process for years.

It took Continental pilots more than a decade to obtain those rates, but he only wants to point out that they are higher now. Not to mention they have a worldwide widebody network and are the largest airline in the world....

Basically, most of you guys going nuts on here have significantly benefited from our low cost, high growth model. You now have significant seniority, all of you, in part from taking a job with less than average compensation. But now that you have achieved significant seniority, you don't care is significantly higher costs slow down the growth for everyone behind you. You have yours, and now you want the compensation packages of the worlds largest airlines regardless of how that affects those that seek seniority advancement from the growth that YOU enjoyed.

I hate to blow your cover to the world, but you 10 or so extremists are exaggerating the problems we have and making things sound far worse than they are as a strategy to starve jetBlue of new hire\applicants (not working) and embarrass current jetBlue pilots into voting a union (which is coincidentally the main prescription you all cite to fix what ails us).

You all want a union, I get it. I have always leaned that way, but if things were even CLOSE to as bad as you pretend they are, YOU would quit, I would QUIT, the union votes of past would have passed easily.

But alas, you haven't quit.

We have things to address, especially healthcare. But you are engaged in a strategy of starving the beast and embarrassing pilots into voting the way you want. It is too dishonest and too extreme.

You pretend like every problem will be fixed with a union. You pretend like all these union airlines have had a great run, and that they are happy.

I have met THOUSANDS of miserable legacy pilots over the years, all union. They have significant problems, just different ones. I recognize that for all the problems they have had, they have maintained better benefits, but often NOT better pay. Sometimes yes, often NO.

At the end of the day, I will likely vote for a union. But at least I won't be diluding myself and others that we won't still have problems, lose some of the jetBlue that WE enjoy, likely create some new problems we didn't anticipate, but we will probably have better benefits...

But you will still be miserable, that much I guarantee.

To those reading these forums and trying to decide about jetBlue. Read every opinion. They all have something to contribute. I love my job at jetBlue and see a good future here. A union vote will eventually pass here, but if it doesn't, it will be because things are still good enough, despite having terrible healthcare coverage and some other holes in our benefits.

But understand that there are about 10 guys on here that are engaging in a strategy to make it seem FAR worse than it really is, in a concerted effort to starve the company of new applicants, new hires, and to embarrass current JB pilots into voting union. They want a union no matter what, and will tell you that a union here will be perfect, will fix everything that ails us, will create no new problems for us, and that everything at other union majors is so perfect, and they are all so happy with their careers.

There will always be applicants. The only people they will scare away are the bitter people who only see the negatives, and no one wants them anyway.

 

[Smarta$$]

There will always be applicants. The only people they will scare away are the bitter people who only see the negatives, and no one wants them anyway.

Hope you are right.

 

[Splert]

Why is the world either BLACK or WHITE with you. He said he just looked at the pay scale and said theirs was way higher. They just got a new contract within weeks. But they were bringing our rates down through the pay review average process for years.

Only a juicer would utter: "They have kept our rates down".

It took Continental pilots more than a decade to obtain those rates, but he only wants to point out that they are higher now. Not to mention they have a worldwide widebody network and are the largest airline in the world....

Basically, most of you guys going nuts on here have significantly benefited from our low cost, high growth model. You now have significant seniority, all of you, in part from taking a job with less than average compensation. But now that you have achieved significant seniority, you don't care is significantly higher costs slow down the growth for everyone behind you. You have yours, and now you want the compensation packages of the worlds largest airlines regardless of how that affects those that seek seniority advancement from the growth that YOU enjoyed.

Growth was not fueled by low costs. Our growth was fueled and funded by DEBT not free cash flow as a by product of low costs. Stop selling your 1st grade logic.

I hate to blow your cover to the world, but you 10 or so extremists are exaggerating the problems we have and making things sound far worse than they are as a strategy to starve jetBlue of new hire\applicants (not working) and embarrass current jetBlue pilots into voting a union (which is coincidentally the main prescription you all cite to fix what ails us).

Nice theory ... but you are wrong. I said since the begging that if you are a senior RJ CA then beware. If you are a RJ FO with no PIC then beware. If you are out of work then come over here otherwise beware.

You all want a union, I get it. I have always leaned that way, but if things were even CLOSE to as bad as you pretend they are, YOU would quit, I would QUIT, the union votes of past would have passed easily.

But alas, you haven't quit.

It doesn't work that way junior.

We have things to address, especially healthcare. But you are engaged in a strategy of starving the beast and embarrassing pilots into voting the way you want. It is too dishonest and too extreme.

I did not say DON"T come here I said beware. If I was at ASA and a senior RJ CA and was looking to come to here now - I wouldn't.

You pretend like every problem will be fixed with a union. You pretend like all these union airlines have had a great run, and that they are happy.

That is your bias. Never said that or implied that.

I have met THOUSANDS of miserable legacy pilots over the years, all union. They have significant problems, just different ones. I recognize that for all the problems they have had, they have maintained better benefits, but often NOT better pay. Sometimes yes, often NO.

That is right out of MWW Pay book.

At the end of the day, I will likely vote for a union. But at least I won't be diluding myself and others that we won't still have problems, lose some of the jetBlue that WE enjoy, likely create some new problems we didn't anticipate, but we will probably have better benefits...

You are deluding yourself right now because no one on this thread ever implied what you believe other people believe.

But you will still be miserable, that much I guarantee.

You say our vacation system is fine. I provided the facts that is the worst. Then you call names. Classic!

To those reading these forums and trying to decide about jetBlue. Read every opinion. They all have something to contribute. I love my job at jetBlue and see a good future here. A union vote will eventually pass here, but if it doesn't, it will be because things are still good enough, despite having terrible healthcare coverage and some other holes in our benefits.

Hole? Like none of them being contractual and are 100% at the discretion of AIRLINE management. Every single benefit (health and retirement etc).

But understand that there are about 10 guys on here that are engaging in a strategy to make it seem FAR worse than it really is, in a concerted effort to starve the company of new applicants, new hires, and to embarrass current JB pilots into voting union. They want a union no matter what, and will tell you that a union here will be perfect, will fix everything that ails us, will create no new problems for us, and that everything at other union majors is so perfect, and they are all so happy with their careers.

Understand there are 10 guys on here that said the company would never destroy your health care.

 

[Splert]

There will always be applicants. The only people they will scare away are the bitter people who only see the negatives, and no one wants them anyway.

Enjoy never having a bid summer vacation off.

You realize that your retirement is entirely at the discretion of Airline management?

But that does not matter because they are paying it now and they would never do that?

Yeah that is what the sunshine pumpers said and then one day our health care plan (just a few days ago) became industry worst. Nice job pumpers.

I know. "Sooner or later everyone will have it this bad and the company is being proactive".

Calculas.

 

[Smarta$$]

Only a juicer would utter: "They have kept our rates down".

Growth was not fueled by low costs. Our growth was fueled and funded by DEBT not free cash flow as a by product of low costs. Stop selling your 1st grade logic.

Nice theory ... but you are wrong. I said since the begging that if you are a senior RJ CA then beware. If you are a RJ FO with no PIC then beware. If you are out of work then come over here otherwise beware.

It doesn't work that way junior.

I did not say DON"T come here I said beware. If I was at ASA and a senior RJ CA and was looking to come to here now - I wouldn't.

That is your bias. Never said that or implied that.

That is right out of MWW Pay book.

You are deluding yourself right now because no one on this thread ever implied what you believe other people believe.



You say our vacation system is fine. I provided the facts that is the worst. Then you call names. Classic!



Hole? Like none of them being contractual and are 100% at the discretion of AIRLINE management. Every single benefit (health and retirement etc).



Understand there are 10 guys on here that said the company would never destroy your health care.

Typical bill$hi!.

 

[Splert]

Typical no facts and 100% emotion.

Low costs funded our growth is the emotion when in fact it was debt not cash flow.

Next!

 

[spudskier]

Enjoy never having a bid summer vacation off.

You realize that your retirement is entirely at the discretion of Airline management?

That sucks about summers...

I don't have a dog in this fight, but your retirement is NEVER at the discretion of management. There are a million options out there for long term investment and no where in the constitution does it say you have to invest in your company's retirement plan. If jetBlue offers free money in the form of a non-matching 401k... invest some. There are IRAs Roth IRAs, and other investment accounts in a rainbow of forms.

Although I've been sitting in the right seat of a regional jet for way too long, I come from a freelance background in my previous career. There are no retirement benefits, medical benefits or vacations there. Company not helping you? Fend for yourself. I understand there is a standard for this industry and B6 is well below it, but never is your retirement in the hands of management.

 

[Splert]

Enjoy never having a bid summer vacation off.

You realize that your EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION TO YOUR RETIREMENT ALL 13% is entirely at the discretion of Airline management?

But that does not matter because they are paying it now and they would never do that?

Yeah that is what the sunshine pumpers said and then one day our health care plan (just a few days ago) became industry worst. Nice job pumpers.

I know. "Sooner or later everyone will have it this bad and the company is being proactive".

Calculas.

Fixed it.

 

[Smarta$$]

Typical no facts and 100% emotion.

Low costs funded our growth is the emotion when in fact it was debt not cash flow.

Next!

That is so simplistic. Debt, and low costs BOTH influence a companies growth rate. Sometimes high costs can be overcome with a good business plan, but high costs still diverts some of a company's resources away from growing the business.

To suggest otherwise proves how stupid you really are. All resources, including capital, credit and debt are limited.

 

[say again]

For what it's worth, I have quite a few friends/former colleagues that I keep in touch with that are at JB. I'd have to say that a vast majority are ok to happy with JB. They say it's not perfect, but what job really is? The main issue that many have is the medical insurance. All, if their situation allows it, are under their spouse's insurance. Many live in base, which to me is a must for QOL reasons. Quite a few are doing the best (pay and QOL) thus far in their flying career. A majority were were former regional, while a handful were 135.

 

[Splert]

That is so simplistic. Debt, and low costs BOTH influence a companies growth rate. Sometimes high costs can be overcome with a good business plan, but high costs still diverts some of a company's resources away from growing the business.

To suggest otherwise proves how stupid you really are. All resources, including capital, credit and debt are limited.

More name calling. More emotion. Got it!

We have very low operating costs 8-10% operating margins and very high debt load and service which leads to very low net income margins and little return to investors (ROE).

We hit the wall in 2007 due to high debt and softening revenue not very low operating costs and slowed growth as a result. To this day we still have very low operating cost compared to our peers.

 

[BeachBummer]

But understand that there are about 10 guys on here that are engaging in a strategy to make it seem FAR worse than it really is, in a concerted effort to starve the company of new applicants, new hires, and to embarrass current JB pilots into voting union. They want a union no matter what, and will tell you that a union here will be perfect, will fix everything that ails us, will create no new problems for us, and that everything at other union majors is so perfect, and they are all so happy with their careers.

Why is it so black and white with you my friend? Just because one points out the faults doens't mean burn it down.... for god sakes...

I would hang up my ALPA hat and drink blue juice from a straw out of a boot if the company would come through with what they said they would. The gripe isn't union vs. non union. It's hypocrisy vs. keeping your word. It's coming through with your promises.

BTW my post had nothing to do with unions or otherwise.

For the record:
-We need jetblue to be successful and the pilots seats filled.
-Most if not all of us would like to make this our last stop on the airline train of employment.
-"If you don't like it here leave" is not a viable option and hasn't been for years... It' may be soon though, so some will leave. Most want to stay and make it here.


Just think if only 10 guys on here are telling others of the faults of the company, just 10 guys that even know that flightinfo may exist. 10 guys that want to make sure those coming to work here are as well informed as possible before making a life changing employment decision. How many more guys believe it? Frankly I don't care.

Peoples problem with you is that you dont wanna hear the bad... You imediately scorn those that point out the faults. There's plenty of it's not that bad here, but show me one guy that's not in the top 500 that says its a great place? Just because you troll the board and know whats wrong here, doenst mean that others have seen it.

Get over yourself. Sorry there are folks here that have disrupted your perfect world.

 

[terryhfly]

Ok so what is the latest interview gouge? I know there is interviews on the 9th.