B19 Flyer

[imacdog]

If it was easy to be a pilot then everyone would do it.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I could have done almost anything else with my college degree and been better off financially than by being a pilot....




I think it was AC/DC that said:

"Its a long way to the top if you wanna Rock-n-Roll."​

And its a long way back to the bottom too.


We paid the PRICE ... to get where we are. You haven't paid it. Nothing gets me as PO'd as someone trying to devalue the worth of Pilots....

Thats why there are unions .... You want to buy me ... my blood sweat and tears at a cheap price.

I had a rough ride getting to where I am now, and I won't apologize for making a 6 figure salary. I worked hard for it, doing things other people won't do or can't do. Getting screwed along the way by people who devalue what it takes to do what we do.

I've paid a much higher price than most to get to the compensation I have know which exceeds that of most captains. If it wasn't for unions, I would have gotten there a lot sooner.

I have every shred of education and certificates as you, plus probably more. I've paid the price financially for the decisions I've made and the bad luck I've had happen to me. I made the decision to work in aviation, it wasn't all about the money.

Unions have been the single biggest problem in my career and have screwed me a lot more than management has screwed you.

I have never once... not once... stated that a pilot shouldn't be well compensated, but you and your union mongers have repeatedly stated that management is over compenseated for taking on risk that pilots won't with their careers.

When all the great CEOs of the '90s were showing record setting industry profits and unions were touting their industry leading contracts, there wasn't a union member that didn't love them.

However, when the industry pulled back with the economy, it was all the CEO's fault, and had nothing to do with the big contract that couldn't be paid for as it was based on the high revenue numbers during a faltering economy. All the rest of the employees get screwed first, then when the company is about to fold it all in, will the unions are forced to step in with concessions.

Don't tell me gunfyter about paying a price for a job. My disgust for unions and what they represent should be a clear indication.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I called your bluff....

I'll spin them... Those are first year pay, right?

What is the increase for 2nd year?

What is the 10 year pay?

Now start listing professions that equal that type of pay increase over that period of time.

Dimeline.... I called your bluff....


Respond... When I ask questions, nobody likes to respond... c'mon guys...

Respond...

 

[993_Pilot]

Dimeline.... I called your bluff....


Respond... When I ask questions, nobody likes to respond... c'mon guys...

Respond...

I'll respond.

Those were first year pay, but a pilot already has a minimum of 5-6 years in the industry when he lands that job. For the previous 5-6 years, that pilot was making about the same or less, while he flight instructed or humped freight. Name one other profession that has to "pay their dues" by taking such crappy pay for more than a year or two before they start getting fairly compensated? Yeah, their are a few legacy carriers that pay pretty good coin if you can weather a 30 career with them, but getting there without several furloughs, buyouts, or bankruptcies is about as likely as becoming a professional sports player.

 

[dime line]

Dimeline.... I called your bluff....


Respond... When I ask questions, nobody likes to respond... c'mon guys...

Respond...

You didn't call a dam thing. You find out what 2nd year pay is. Oh I forgot, we pilots and familys don't have to eat that first couple of years.

 

[wacoflyr]

B19, you respond selectively, so be careful what you say to others.

You certainly haven't answered my very direct questions.

Wacoflyr

 

[Midge]

The only lackies on this board are the union members that haven't the nuts to manage their own careers and require others to speak for them.

On the contrary sweet cheeks. What I see is union members that have the balls to stand up to managemet dickheads like you! I once worked for a factory owner who told me one day. It takes a bad boss to creat a union.
Well done management puke! You got a gold star!

Apparently, you fall into that category.

Must be nice knowing you have the security of remaining anonomyous behind a keyboard throwing stones in a riot and running into the crowd.
Too bad common sense isn't more common or you'd have some!
Back to tha cubical lackey, I'm sure its time for some more copies and high fives for driving that company of yours into the ground!

 

[B19 Flyer]

You ain't got the nuts to stand on your own and take control of your own career.

On the contrary sweet cheeks. What I see is union members that have the balls to stand up to managemet dickheads like you! I once worked for a factory owner who told me one day. It takes a bad boss to creat a union. Well done management puke! You got a gold star![/color]


Must be nice knowing you have the security of remaining anonomyous behind a keyboard throwing stones in a riot and running into the crowd.
Too bad common sense isn't more common or you'd have some!

Back to tha cubical lackey, I'm sure its time for some more copies and high fives for driving that company of yours into the ground!

Union members are guys that hide behind the skirts of others and negotiate by mob mentality rather than in good faith.

It's takes no courage whatsoever to join a mob. It takes courage to stand up against a mob as an indivdual and ensure that the company is not jeapordized by the mob.

Oh, and there is no cube... it's an office, and what I write is echoed privately by any manager that has been screwed over by a union.

Guys like you Midge come a dime a dozen. You call people names and lack the courage to stand on your own. You are jealous of those that have been successful and want to tear them down... to make them share the wealth that they earned with their own efforts.

You need a union to do your dirty work for you because you ain't got the nuts to stand on your own and take control of your own career.

 

[wacoflyr]

Before you said we accepted a career that is paid to scale, now you tell us to stand on our own.... Who negotiates the scale? Oh that's right, we as individuals do. Hey, wait a minute, that won't work. We all agree we have to negotiate, because pilots have forfeited so much pay while management pay has increased, so.... Tell us what to do, B19. C'mon, respond.

Wacoflyr

 

[brokeflyer]

Union members are guys that hide behind the skirts of others and negotiate by mob mentality rather than in good faith.

It's takes no courage whatsoever to join a mob. It takes courage to stand up against a mob as an indivdual and ensure that the company is not jeapordized by the mob.

Oh, and there is no cube... it's an office, and what I write is echoed privately by any manager that has been screwed over by a union.

Guys like you Midge come a dime a dozen. You call people names and lack the courage to stand on your own. You are jealous of those that have been successful and want to tear them down... to make them share the wealth that they earned with their own efforts.

You need a union to do your dirty work for you because you ain't got the nuts to stand on your own and take control of your own career.

yeah but we're the "nicest" of all the mobs out there.....

so we got THAT going for us....

 

[Midge]

This guy has to be the biggest dickhead ever!

Union members are guys that hide behind the skirts of others and negotiate by mob mentality rather than in good faith.

Now that right there is some funny ********************! Spoken like someon hiding comfortably behind his computer keyboard and hiding under the cover of anomosity! Since you've been called out on your cowardly insults wanting to hob nob with management you've done nothing to prove that typical dumbass management never takes responsibility for its constant ******************** ups! Thank God there are hard working union members to keep morons like you in check!

It's takes no courage whatsoever to join a mob. It takes courage to stand up against a mob as an indivdual and ensure that the company is not jeapordized by the mob.

:laugh:
Is that what they teach you in management 101? I bet its time for you to sharpen some pencils or something? The only standing up you're doing is behind the security of your computer!
How many companies have been ruined by bad management? How many employees wrongfully terminated by bad management. How many unions have gotten wrongfully terminated employees their jobs back due to piss poor management? You call unions a mob because you're afraid of what they represent. They represent a fight against the MISmanagemt of the U.S.A!

Oh, and there is no cube... it's an office, and what I write is echoed privately by any manager that has been screwed over by a union.

Don't worry nancy, no matter how bad you ******************** up your next company as a, EHEM, manager, you'll get your golden parachute, protected pension, all the while trying to stick it up the ass of the worker you're trying to wrongfully fire! Its a good thing I have a union to protect me against your incompetence!

Guys like you Midge come a dime a dozen. You call people names and lack the courage to stand on your own.

Wrong! Guys like me stand up to morons like you because we don't hide behind our titles. That's right nancy, you hide behind your big desk, behind your big title because you're a little man! Guys like you are even cheaper.....Let me guess, havahd law degree? Yeah, you guys have run airlines for years losing money. Congrats B19, you're in a class all by yourself!

You are jealous of those that have been successful and want to tear them down... to make them share the wealth that they earned with their own efforts.

No, I want to keep dickheads like you from destroying my company.....You come in here with your $$million contract, and golden parachute, do your damage, ruin my company, and go on to ruin another company! How you "earned" that is beyond me! You're "brilliance" has cost thousands their livelyhoods, but that's ok, you'll just move on to the next company and destroy it!

You need a union to do your dirty work for you because you ain't got the nuts to stand on your own and take control of your own career.

I got the nuts nancy, you see I ain't the one hiding behind the computer making :crying: comments about union thugs! You are!
So thanks for proving my point. I'll keep my union membership to make dumbasses like you actually have to run a company! You see when you are taking your 2 hour lunches and billing it on the company drinking your martini's, you continue to screw over hard working employees, thus solidifying my need to be a union member.
Thanks, keep up the incompetence B19, you're a real winner!

Your pal and union worker,
Midge

 

[dime line]

[/b][/color][/size][/font]
Now that right there is some funny ********************! Spoken like someon hiding comfortably behind his computer keyboard and hiding under the cover of anomosity! Since you've been called out on your cowardly insults wanting to hob nob with management you've done nothing to prove that typical dumbass management never takes responsibility for its constant ******************** ups! Thank God there are hard working union members to keep morons like you in check!


:laugh:
Is that what they teach you in management 101? I bet its time for you to sharpen some pencils or something? The only standing up you're doing is behind the security of your computer!
How many companies have been ruined by bad management? How many employees wrongfully terminated by bad management. How many unions have gotten wrongfully terminated employees their jobs back due to piss poor management? You call unions a mob because you're afraid of what they represent. They represent a fight against the MISmanagemt of the U.S.A!



Don't worry nancy, no matter how bad you ******************** up your next company as a, EHEM, manager, you'll get your golden parachute, protected pension, all the while trying to stick it up the ass of the worker you're trying to wrongfully fire! Its a good thing I have a union to protect me against your incompetence!



Wrong! Guys like me stand up to morons like you because we don't hide behind our titles. That's right nancy, you hide behind your big desk, behind your big title because you're a little man! Guys like you are even cheaper.....Let me guess, havahd law degree? Yeah, you guys have run airlines for years losing money. Congrats B19, you're in a class all by yourself!


No, I want to keep dickheads like you from destroying my company.....You come in here with your $$million contract, and golden parachute, do your damage, ruin my company, and go on to ruin another company! How you "earned" that is beyond me! You're "brilliance" has cost thousands their livelyhoods, but that's ok, you'll just move on to the next company and destroy it!



I got the nuts nancy, you see I ain't the one hiding behind the computer making :crying: comments about union thugs! You are!
So thanks for proving my point. I'll keep my union membership to make dumbasses like you actually have to run a company! You see when you are taking your 2 hour lunches and billing it on the company drinking your martini's, you continue to screw over hard working employees, thus solidifying my need to be a union member.
Thanks, keep up the incompetence B19, you're a real winner!

Your pal and union worker,
Midge

Dammm I'm voting for you!!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Before you said we accepted a career that is paid to scale, now you tell us to stand on our own.... Who negotiates the scale? Oh that's right, we as individuals do. Hey, wait a minute, that won't work. We all agree we have to negotiate, because pilots have forfeited so much pay while management pay has increased, so.... Tell us what to do, B19. C'mon, respond.

Wacoflyr

Wacoflyr, you knew when you became a pilot how the pay structure was, right? You knew that top pay would be for a legacy carrier with a four degree flying large equipment internationally, right?

In aviation that's how the money comes as a pilot (unless you step behind a desk), and you negotiate through skills, education and experience. The method is different, but the results are the same.

Those that chose to fly without the education or desire to fly that kind of equipment should have different expectations of what their income should be. Then, you aren't doing it for the money.

I don't know about you.. but when I started to fly I wanted to get everything aviation had for me by working my way through the traditional route, commuter, regional and legacy. I knew exactly what to expect but I was forced to a different path. Even then, I still chose to follow it best I could until it was derailed twice by unions.

The scale you mention is detirmined by the business model, not how big a boat you want. The stability of the company is more important than how fast your motorcycle is.

If you wanted to afford a big boat and a fast motorcycle, your best best would be to have gone the traditional route up through a major.

Where do you feel that management pay has increased? Because you see that a handful of senior managment that has responsibility for the entire company gets compensated more? Rank and file management hasn't increased, if anything it's been cut more than pilot pay because they are the ones that get hit first before the pilots do.

You need to get off of that thinking of the 1% person at the top and think about the 99% of everybody else that just wants a stable job without the threat of a layoff. Stable companies that can adjust to the market place to that better than those that can't adjust.

 

[wacoflyr]

Thank you. We fundamentaly disagree, but I appreciate the well reasoned response.

Wacoflyr

 

[B19 Flyer]

You must be a democrat.

Originally Posted by Midge:

Now that right there is some funny ********************! Spoken like someon hiding comfortably behind his computer keyboard and hiding under the cover of anomosity! Since you've been called out on your cowardly insults wanting to hob nob with management you've done nothing to prove that typical dumbass management never takes responsibility for its constant ******************** ups! Thank God there are hard working union members to keep morons like you in check!

I've clearly stated repeatedly Midge that if you can do a better job, step into management. Guys like you will never do it and leave the dirty work for others because you either don't have the skills to do it are just lazy enough to accept what others will do for you. While this board allows me privacy, I'm anything but private in my management position.


Is that what they teach you in management 101? I bet its time for you to sharpen some pencils or something? The only standing up you're doing is behind the security of your computer!

If you think that is what management does all day, it doesn't surprise me that you would let others speak for you. It also seems like the kind of job you'd probably be good at.

How many companies have been ruined by bad management? How many employees wrongfully terminated by bad management. How many unions have gotten wrongfully terminated employees their jobs back due to piss poor management?

As I have stated before, I have seen unsafe pilots saved by the union grievance process over and over. I've actually had union reps defending pilots that they would not fly with. It's up to management to maintain the workplace. If unions were so damn smart, they should start their own airline rather than take over the efforts that somebody else has put together.


You call unions a mob because you're afraid of what they represent. They represent a fight against the MISmanagemt of the U.S.A!

I call unions a mob because that is exactly what they are. Unions are bullies that suck the life out of a company. When a company with a union stumbles due to the economy, the unions never accept responsibility. They blame management even though they tell their membership that they are there to improve the company. If they really did that, no company would ever falter. Instead, they take the money and run. When programs fail like ASAP, they blame management, not themselves.



Don't worry nancy, no matter how bad you ******************** up your next company as a, EHEM, manager, you'll get your golden parachute, protected pension, all the while trying to stick it up the ass of the worker you're trying to wrongfully fire! Its a good thing I have a union to protect me against your incompetence!

That doens't make any sense.. sounds like a bit of jealousy to me that somebody else has more talent than you.


Wrong! Guys like me stand up to morons like you because we don't hide behind our titles. That's right nancy, you hide behind your big desk, behind your big title because you're a little man! Guys like you are even cheaper.....Let me guess, havahd law degree? Yeah, you guys have run airlines for years losing money. Congrats B19, you're in a class all by yourself!

I have no clue who "nancy" is, but once again.. sounds like you really are jealous of others because they are more successful than you financially. In the history of aviation, all of it... the industry has been a break even entity. That is well known.

No, I want to keep dickheads like you from destroying my company.....You come in here with your $$million contract, and golden parachute, do your damage, ruin my company, and go on to ruin another company! How you "earned" that is beyond me! You're "brilliance" has cost thousands their livelyhoods, but that's ok, you'll just move on to the next company and destroy it!

Unions have cost just as many jobs and have harmed more than you’ll ever know because it’s clear you limit your opinions to those within your own group. Every time a union comes onto the property it disrupts the original business plan and places the company into a financial situation that it hadn’t planned on. If you aren’t happy Midge, go find a carrier that will make you happy. Nobody is forcing you to work there.

I got the nuts nancy, you see I ain't the one hiding behind the computer making comments about union thugs! You are!

I’m not hiding Midge, I’m very high profile and in the kind of position that keeps people like you from hurting yourself every day on the line. This is a public message board and I choose to keep personal information private.

So thanks for proving my point. I'll keep my union membership to make dumbasses like you actually have to run a company! You see when you are taking your 2 hour lunches and billing it on the company drinking your martini's, you continue to screw over hard working employees, thus solidifying my need to be a union member.

The only points you’ve proved Midge is your ignorance on the business side of the industry, the effects that organized labor has on the industry and your inability to stand on your own to be responsible for your own career.

Thanks, keep up the incompetence B19, you're a real winner!

No incompetence.. I stand on my own Midge and am responsible to speak for myself and take care of my own career. I can’t imagine anybody speaking for me. You are probably a democrat.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Dammm I'm voting for you!!!!

He's a democrat.... :laugh:

 

[B19 Flyer]

yeah but we're the "nicest" of all the mobs out there.....

so we got THAT going for us....

The days of the burning barrel have long passed....

You are right..

 

[brokeflyer]

careful or ill get joe pesci on your $hit......he and I are oike....tight ya know

 

[EngineThunder]

I saw N181CR just land at CGF direct from Cabo via El Paso. How are those pilots able to stand being KR's pilots??? I heard what they get paid to fly that GIV which is another thread altogether.

 

[Hogprint]

When all the great CEOs of the '90s were showing record setting industry profits and unions were touting their industry leading contracts, there wasn't a union member that didn't love them.

This is it in a nutshell. The "Great" CEO's of the 90's as you say were a product of the media that made them into rock stars. I'm willing to bet you fell under that spell.

What you failed to mention was the "greats" of the 90's were making 450% more than the highest paid worker. Now the backlash of those heady days are upon us.

I wonder if your "greats" and yourself will realign within the system?