Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[PositiveRate]

Sorry Trainer, but MDA was not US Airways mainline. We can go back and forth on this for another 5 pages, but it wasn't. It was intended to be a wholly owned subsidiary and ended up being operated on the US certificate. There was no flow up opportunity except a RECALL to mainline and the PSA and Piedmont guys who ended up flying there had no means of progressing to mainline equipment if they were not FURLOUGHED.

Go from top to bottom of the West list and you'll find the majority would have rather this merger never happened in the first place. We're not over here dancing in our seats, but I'll be dam%ed if someone thinks I got a windfall because someone who didn't have a job when Parker got this bright idea doesn't get to go in front of me and further contribute to my career stagnation.

The history behind Colello being on the bottom of the list after 16 yrs are unfortunate to be sure, but those reasons are no fault of mine and payback is not deserving on my back.

 

[Turtle21]

There will be no new contract soon.

Since USAir pilots have 3100 votes I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie never gets a single carrier.

Seniority is everything. Why agree to a 15% reduction in seniority when you have the votes to effectively throw it out?

USAir pilots can permanently prevent any merger by decertifying APLA. It is rumored that exploratory calls have already gone out to APA.

A count of the votes seems to indicate that the merger may be as good as dead.

 

[Groucho]

Hey, I hear ya. It could happen!!

 

[PositiveRate]

"Seniority is everything. Why agree to a 15% reduction in seniority when you have the votes to effectively throw it out?"

Actually, money is everything in this case. $hit contract til 2009, then 2-4 yrs of negotiating after that...What you say will likely not happen.

Turtle, are you an East guy? You seem to have a particular desire to see Parker's experiment fail.

 

[Groucho]

There will be no quick contract. No contract until 2010, at the very earliest.

 

[Turtle21]

Sorry Trainer, but MDA was not US Airways mainline. We can go back and forth on this for another 5 pages, but it wasn't. It was intended to be a wholly owned subsidiary and ended up being operated on the US certificate. There was no flow up opportunity except a RECALL to mainline and the PSA and Piedmont guys who ended up flying there had no means of progressing to mainline equipment if they were not FURLOUGHED.

Go from top to bottom of the West list and you'll find the majority would have rather this merger never happened in the first place. We're not over here dancing in our seats, but I'll be dam%ed if someone thinks I got a windfall because someone who didn't have a job when Parker got this bright idea doesn't get to go in front of me and further contribute to my career stagnation.

The history behind Colello being on the bottom of the list after 16 yrs are unfortunate to be sure, but those reasons are no fault of mine and payback is not deserving on my back.

You are a special pilot and USAir pilots are gonna recognize that right away. Probably buy you a beer on every overnight. Oops; have to stick with a Shirley Temple instead for a few years.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

odell got put ahead of colello - thats f'in bullsh1t. east got the shaft big time.

tell me how the fvck does someone that got hired in 2005 get put ahead of someone with an 1986 DOH?

Oh that one is real easy to answer, because Mr. Colello was unemployed at the time Mr. Odell was hired and working...

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Since USAir pilots have 3100 votes I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie never gets a single carrier.

Seniority is everything. Why agree to a 15% reduction in seniority when you have the votes to effectively throw it out?

USAir pilots can permanently prevent any merger by decertifying APLA. It is rumored that exploratory calls have already gone out to APA.

A count of the votes seems to indicate that the merger may be as good as dead.

That is probably the single stupidest thing anyone could say. Ok now check this. The AWA pilot contract is up NOW and there is nothing to prevent us from entering into a contract with the company on our own while the east watches us improve in pay and work rules while the sit under LOA93 until their amendable date in 09. Yeah stall the talks that will work!! Get over it and lets move on...

Hey Parker we wish to invoke our section 6 rights.

WD

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

This reaction is predictable. If there's one thing you can count on its the hubris of AAA pilots. Do you fly the same way? "What T-storm? I expect there to be good weather ahead..."

To recap:
Top 500 go to East
Wide Body Fences
No Bump and Flush
List Integrated by ALPA Merger Policy
Furloughed pilots slotted like pretty much every other merger in history.

And still you think you got hosed.... Lets not forget the pass policy is DOH. Or that you come back at your time in service pay. But no, you must have got hosed because now you're gonna fly your same equipment at the same relative seniority, OMFG! How did this happen to you!?

You guys were tools from the absolute beginning of this thing. We started at a reasonable point and you directed your MEC to go for broke. Guess what, you guys are BOTH OLD AND F@@CKING SENILE to expect any other outcome than this.

Now your senility is showing because you'd rather work under a BK agreement than work to get a new contract with better work rules (more time for that afternoon nap grandpa), better pay and a healthier company.

Sorry, but your 16 years would have looked real good at your next interview. You could have told 'em what a great place USAirways was before it F**cking liquidated....

Gear up Gramps! Or do you need your service monkey to reach over and get that for you so you don't throw out your trick back?

I've lost pretty much all respect for those who have gone before me, whinin' freaken' babies.

 

[TWA Dude]

Oh come on. Its the results that you cats whine about. Time for some consistancy from my TWA pals. Get to it fellas.

Why people like you look to stir the pot is beyond me. I've written over and over that it's the process that needs to be fair, outcome be darned. There's simply no comparison between AA/TWA and AW/USA. One was a one-sided cramdown and the other was neutral arbitration. No inconsistancy exists.

 

[PositiveRate]

Well said Grog!

 

[On Your Six]

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

This reaction is predictable. If there's one thing you can count on its the hubris of AAA pilots. Do you fly the same way? "What T-storm? I expect there to be good weather ahead..."

To recap:
Top 500 go to East
Wide Body Fences
No Bump and Flush
List Integrated by ALPA Merger Policy
Furloughed pilots slotted like pretty much every other merger in history.

And still you think you got hosed.... Lets not forget the pass policy is DOH. Or that you come back at your time in service pay. But no, you must have got hosed because now you're gonna fly your same equipment at the same relative seniority, OMFG! How did this happen to you!?

You guys were tools from the absolute beginning of this thing. We started at a reasonable point and you directed your MEC to go for broke. Guess what, you guys are BOTH OLD AND F@@CKING SENILE to expect any other outcome than this.

Now your senility is showing because you'd rather work under a BK agreement than work to get a new contract with better work rules (more time for that afternoon nap grandpa), better pay and a healthier company.

Sorry, but your 16 years would have looked real good at your next interview. You could have told 'em what a great place USAirways was before it F**cking liquidated....

Gear up Gramps! Or do you need your service monkey to reach over and get that for you so you don't throw out your trick back?

I've lost pretty much all respect for those who have gone before me, whinin' freaken' babies.

So, with the widebodies fenced, will the senior USAirways East pilots be able to bump the AWA 757 pilots off their Hawaiian routes? When will East pilots be able to bid West domiciles like PHX and LAS and vice versa? Watch the older East pilots bid sunny Phoenix (pre-retirement) at the first chance.

I love to hear the East pilots crying about their arbitration result. Perhaps they should consider that they were weeks away from LIQUIDATION and the unemployment line? Does that ring a bell? They should consider themselves lucky in my opinion - especially the top 500...

 

[SXMp2c]

Doesnt mattter if you are east or west, we can all agree that Mesa still sucks.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Yeah, I wonder what their seniority would be like after they lost their jobs and had to go to Jet Blue.

I'd bet they'd sue when they found out they'd be on the bottom.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

MESA SUCKS. UAL just got a stake in Hawaiian, looks like JohnnyO will have to decide between GO and his UAL flying soon.

HAH!

 

[The Victors]

US Air (original east coast) is like that nasty yard fungus that everyone hates but cant seem to get rid of

 

[Flys4Fun]

Grog is da man. Well said, brother.

No matter how this arbitration went, someone was going to be pissed off. Can't please 'em all!

 

[Hpilot]

Harsh, but true grog. What do you West sides think about our guys that keep on picking up all the extra flying?

 

[Turtle21]

That is probably the single stupidest thing anyone could say. Ok now check this. The AWA pilot contract is up NOW and there is nothing to prevent us from entering into a contract with the company on our own while the east watches us improve in pay and work rules while the sit under LOA93 until their amendable date in 09. Yeah stall the talks that will work!! Get over it and lets move on...

Hey Parker we wish to invoke our section 6 rights.

WD

Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense.

It is simple math. Grampa pilots are always willing to vote for junior pilots to loose seniority and money in exchange for a payoff to them. And grampa pilots were all too willing to vote 2000 pilots off the bottom of the USAir active list in exchange for a payoff.

In this situation Dave has to convince 3100 pilots (who collectively view themselves as senior) to acquiesce to a seniority loss to 1800 other pilots (that they perceive to be junior). The arbitrator’s ruling doesn’t change the fact that there are 3100 pilots who get to vote on when or if the list is effectively integrated.

To get the grampa pilots to adopt what they perceive as a seniority loss to themselves, it will cost a pay raise that I can't imagine Dave is interested in paying.

But who knows, maybe the grampa pilots have changed in their old age or maybe Dave is really a sugar daddy at heart.

I don't know, but I sure as heell wouldn't buy a ticket to be a customer while this is going on.

 

[LearLove]

how many AWA pilots are there and what do their retirement numbers look like?

 

[PositiveRate]

"Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense."

You're stupid. Any other requests?

Refresh my memory, but what is your dog in this fight? Are you furloughed, active, retired or just here to hear yourself talk?

-----

Lear,

right around 1820-1830 pilots at present (+/-)
do a search on the retirement #'s, but a ballpark average is 50/year for a while.

 

[5150]

Prime example of why this integration is the final nail in the coffin for USAirways. With an award this lopsided, the bitterness and resentment will bring this operation to it's knees. I give this place another year or two, then it's finished. Better start looking for work now and beat the rush.

So much for unity.

With Sincere Apologies to BenderGonzales and LearLove here I go on a rant.

This reaction is predictable. If there's one thing you can count on its the hubris of AAA pilots. Do you fly the same way? "What T-storm? I expect there to be good weather ahead..."

To recap:
Top 500 go to East
Wide Body Fences
No Bump and Flush
List Integrated by ALPA Merger Policy
Furloughed pilots slotted like pretty much every other merger in history.

And still you think you got hosed.... Lets not forget the pass policy is DOH. Or that you come back at your time in service pay. But no, you must have got hosed because now you're gonna fly your same equipment at the same relative seniority, OMFG! How did this happen to you!?

You guys were tools from the absolute beginning of this thing. We started at a reasonable point and you directed your MEC to go for broke. Guess what, you guys are BOTH OLD AND F@@CKING SENILE to expect any other outcome than this.

Now your senility is showing because you'd rather work under a BK agreement than work to get a new contract with better work rules (more time for that afternoon nap grandpa), better pay and a healthier company.

Sorry, but your 16 years would have looked real good at your next interview. You could have told 'em what a great place USAirways was before it F**cking liquidated....

Gear up Gramps! Or do you need your service monkey to reach over and get that for you so you don't throw out your trick back?

I've lost pretty much all respect for those who have gone before me, whinin' freaken' babies.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

There's no voting... Its an ARBITRATOR. There might be suing, but voting doesn't enter into it.

 

[Turtle21]

"Call me stupid, but I used to fly with the 3100 USAir grampa pilots and I don't see them voting a 15-30% seniority improvement to 1800 HP savior of the world wonder kid pilots, at their own expense."

You're stupid. Any other requests?

Boy you are a quick one. Short sighted and reactionary, but A+ for speed.

 

[Groucho]

Reducto Absurdum

Reduce to the Absurd....

Virgin America goes ALPA in their third month of operation.
US Aiways buys Virgin. By the logic of this award, the slotting starts at the 500 and goes down from there.

Most Virgin pilots, with three months longevity, will end up senior to F/O's with 20 + years of service. Virgin Capts, off the street, will be senior to pilots with 25 yrs of service. This is ALPA national merger policy?? This will breed unity and union effectiveness??

This will help destroy ALPA. Just remember you will all be senior in terms of length of service at some time or another. If, when the picture is taken, you are not also senior in terms of position that snapshot will wreck your
career.

As a poster above said, this will destroy the airline. Maybe, maybe not but operationally things just got real bleak around here. If every merger just gets you screwed further and there is nothing you can do to protect yourself after 20 + years why not just let it tank on it's own. Parker hasn't got a clue on how to run an operation, he doesn't need any help screwing it up.



Ther will be more mergers coming. What then??

 

[Carl S.]

517 for sure yes votes, then 1000 highly likely yes votes, so 50% plus one to get away from LOA 93 is almost a lock on AWA POS Contract 2004. AAA made out on this, so it matters what active "voting" members do, not side line tough talking" beauty queens" think.

 

[the turtle]

Doesnt mattter if you are east or west, we can all agree that Mesa still sucks.

Good God Man, that was just the kind of speedbump this thread needs!

You Win A Cookie!!!

 

[eaglefly]

Sounds like after hearing of this, most of the U geezers will either flop over from Anger-driven heart attacks or strokes, drive themselves insane, or end up in D-block after poping a cap in the old ladies arse and torturing the cat after watching him spell out the letters A W in the catbox with his dried turds.

5 years from now, most will be then be history...............perhaps Nicolau was thinking long-term. Perhaps Parker threw him some cash and transferred to him his $400,000 of Jack Daniels stock.

Who knows.

 

[xrated]

.

Just get used to it, you are gonna hear bitching until the last USAir pilot retires.

No problem, that's what, two years away?

 

[PositiveRate]

"Boy you are a quick one. Short sighted and reactionary, but A+ for speed."

Please explain to me how I am being short sighted...This should be good....

Can you get it through your thick head that on the day this merger was announced, the junior AW pilots were flying the line with a full hiring pool waiting for class dates behind them and expected hiring in excess of 200 pilots for the year. On the flip side Colello and below were FURLOUGHED from mainline with no expectation of recall, while the remaining US Airways pilots faced, at the very best, a bleak future that likely would have brought MORE furloughs and possibly even liquidation.

This is reality. It cannot be spun, although it seems many are willing to grasp at tiny context and rear mirror views to make pathetic points (i.e. pointing out C was an MDA employee or referencing what has happened SINCE the merger closed with recalls). You don't get to erase history to suit your views and Nicolau made that loud and clear.

I empathize with the fact that many in the east have had to take far too many bites from the $hit sandwich this career has become, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation which is, when the merger was announced, I had a job at one of the merging carriers and 1700+ East guys didn't.

5150,

"Prime example of why this integration is the final nail in the coffin for USAirways. With an award this lopsided, the bitterness and resentment will bring this operation to it's knees."

I'm curious, but how is this award lopsided? Would you have considered an award that placed FURLOUGHED pilots ahead of ACTIVE pilots to not be lopsided, because that's how I read what you're saying. In that case, I would not use the word "lopsided", but rather "not to your liking"....