Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[Carl S.]

Rule number one was not violated, it is what you bring to the table, jobs!!!

 

[Prog 2/2]

Let me be the first to ask that all former TWA guys now at HP scream bloody murder and demand this injustice be overturned by the courts or Kit Bond. Second, I request all former TWA guys start spinning wild conspiracy theories about fake BK's, back room deals with ALPA and bought off judges. Third, I demand all former TWA guys start talking about how the old USAir was a great model of airline operations that was just days away from making butt loads of cash and HP ruined a well oiled machine out of arrogance and jealousy.

Can you guess how many fingers I'm holding up ?

 

[FR8mastr]

C... was a working pilot on the date of the merger. 16+ years and working on the U certificate, flying a U plane is now junior to someone who was not even out of groundschool on that date.

No this was not a windfall for the West

 

[AutoBus]

C... was a working pilot on the date of the merger. 16+ years and working on the U certificate, flying a U plane is now junior to someone who was not even out of groundschool on that date.

No this was not a windfall for the West

Dude, it's what you bring to the table. You simply want (for yourself) what we (AWA) came to the table with (our seats), do you consider that fair?

Let me guess, 7 billion blah blah blah in consessions to get the airline was just before the merger, that is no money, no plan, no ideas.

 

[PositiveRate]

I believe it was correct to use the original merger date as a basis for the furloughee vs. active pilots issue. A lot of the emotion is resultant from all that's happened since (generally positive for East and stagnant for West). The reality for each carrier was greatly different 2 years ago. Mondo and Odell were active, Colello was furloughed..this is the exact order they are in on the new list. This is the right call...the list isn't a moving target...it was what it was on that day by no fault of either group.

Lear Love, I believe you are absolutely wrong on your assertion that Colello's 16 yr's service entitles him to a position above Odell. On the merger announcement date, Odell had a job. We are entitled to our opinions, though.

 

[FR8mastr]

You guys keep missing the Point, "C" was in fact WORKING for US Airways at the time of the merger. I dont know how to make that any more clear.

 

[PositiveRate]

Collelo was furloughed on the merger announcement date, which is what the arbitrator used when he "drew the line".

Odell was an active pilot on that day.

Spin it however you like, though.

 

[Doug Parker]

Rule number one was not violated, it is what you bring to the table, jobs!!!

And a whole lotta baggage !!!!!!



.

 

[Hpilot]

Is everyone pissed? If so, they've done it best. One guy smiling, not right!

I'm still pissed about the merger in the first place(extra 5 yrs on reserve). Does that count?

 

[JetMonkey]

To me one sentence in the board's letter says it best. In determining where to place Odell and Monda, Nicolau states very clearly that when the merger was announced Odell and Monda were both at the bottom of their list. Now TWO YEARS LATER, Colello who was furloughed, is now a B757 fo with 300 active pilots beneath him, while Odell is still at the bottom of his list.

Colello will get top of scale pay for his posistion, but now that I've have had the gut wrenching experience of having gone through one of these, I have to agree with Carl, it's definately what you bring to the merger, plus career expectations.

 

[Turtle21]

Collelo was furloughed on the merger announcement date, which is what the arbitrator used when he "drew the line".

Odell was an active pilot on that day.

Spin it however you like, though.

“Snot nosed captains” are gonna tell FOs, who started their career with Eastern Airlines, that things are just peachy. The cockpits are gonna be miserable.

The company will come out with a new employee number sequence to try to hide the fact of who came from what airline, but it won’t matter. Pilots who get screwed keep seniority lists. And the pilots who got a windfall will try to preach about how it was justified.

Just get used to it, you are gonna hear bitching until the last USAir pilot retires. The only way to end the conversation in the cockpit is to agree with them about how bad they got screwed and to be embarrassed about how big your windfall was.

 

[vetrider]

I'm only one guy out of thousands, but I'm not pissed off, so by the strictest definition of fairness(everyone pissed off) it must not be completely fair I suppose. Excluding a point of dissention by the east neutral regarding the placement of the more senior furloughees who have in the meantime been recalled, both the neutrals and Nicolau consider it fair.

I think it is fair for the most part, though I actually agree with the east neutrals point of dissention. I can certainly see why a large number of east guys see it as unfair, but the arbitrator has ruled. Frankly, as a west guy I expected to fare much worse.

 

[N905TW]

Let me be the first to ask that all former TWA guys now at HP scream bloody murder and demand this injustice be overturned by the courts or Kit Bond. Second, I request all former TWA guys start spinning wild conspiracy theories about fake BK's, back room deals with ALPA and bought off judges. Third, I demand all former TWA guys start talking about how the old USAir was a great model of airline operations that was just days away from making butt loads of cash and HP ruined a well oiled machine out of arrogance and jealousy.

I believe that perhaps you missed the fact that the new USAirways Seniority List was determined by a neutral third party arbitrator, as opposed to the turd of an "agreement" crafted by "Superior AA guys" and crammed down our throats without any input. We TWA'ers could only have dreamed of a NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY AGREEMENT back then.

This time the list was handled per ALPA policy in a fair way, and now we have to move on. Next stop - ONE CONTRACT - NO CONCESSIONS!!

 

[Fast43]

"Just get used to it, you are gonna hear bitching until the last USAir pilot retires. The only way to end the conversation in the cockpit is to agree with them about how bad they got screwed and to be embarrassed about how big your windfall was"

Nah, won't be doing that. nobody got a windfall................unless still having a job is a windfall.

As far as embarrassment, the east guys should have been Embarrassed to demand DOH. We told them that and now the 3 guys that count most just told them that as well. I think its the east who should be Embarrassed.

 

[Doug Parker]

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Just remember Fast43, they (AAA) did, after all, SAVE AWA !!!



.

 

[Beechnut]

Air Wisconsin hasn't announced anything yet so maybe you guys can look this up for me: How have the AWAC pilots been merged to the list? Are all you guys below us?

S.

 

[LearLove]

The senior "Former CEL guys" are now being offered May E190 classes.

Of thoes guys, most that are getting offers are j4j at republic so they will be held (up to 9 months) and not actually see that class date but it means they are within the last 100 guys on the list (for the 190).

 

[LearLove]

Anyone have the combined fleet numbers now and projected (looking down the road)?

what about fleet type numbers. 737, 757,767, A319-321, A330, E190

 

[MCDU]

Who cares. USAIR will be out of business in 2-5years. Pilot morale is at an all time low and 3000 east pilots just do not want their airline to succeed because they just don't care anymore.

Marty

 

[MCDU]

I avoid flying USAIR commuting. They are so unreliable. I wonder why pax still fly them. I give 5 years max.

 

[Groucho]

This award will not come to pass soon. The East side will simply not sign a new contract. This could go on for years.

 

[Carl S.]

Enjoy LOA 93 till 12/09++++, I'll take our shrinking fleet and"sub-par" contract!

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

I believe that perhaps you missed the fact that the new USAirways Seniority List was determined by a neutral third party arbitrator, as opposed to the turd of an "agreement" crafted by "Superior AA guys" and crammed down our throats without any input. We TWA'ers could only have dreamed of a NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY AGREEMENT back then.

This time the list was handled per ALPA policy in a fair way, and now we have to move on. Next stop - ONE CONTRACT - NO CONCESSIONS!!

Oh come on. Its the results that you cats whine about.
Time for some consistancy from my TWA pals. Get to it fellas.

 

[AutoBus]

This award will not come to pass soon. The East side will simply not sign a new contract. This could go on for years.

doubt that will happen, as usual the more senior east guys will quickly sell out the more junior guys for some candy or protection for themselves.

'All of this has happened before and will happen again'

 

[Turtle21]

"Just get used to it, you are gonna hear bitching until the last USAir pilot retires. The only way to end the conversation in the cockpit is to agree with them about how bad they got screwed and to be embarrassed about how big your windfall was"

Nah, won't be doing that. nobody got a windfall................unless still having a job is a windfall.

As far as embarrassment, the east guys should have been Embarrassed to demand DOH. We told them that and now the 3 guys that count most just told them that as well. I think its the east who should be Embarrassed.

Sparky, you just proved the point. :smash:

The mentality of Eastern Mechanics is now entrenched among USAir pilots. Bitchin and slow operations in the cockpit for the next 15-20 years. Most HP pilots don’t even know what happened to Eastern Airlines; don’t worry, many of your greybeard co-pilots started their career there. You will have plenty of cockpit conversations to relive some history. Ha! Beer is on the Captain.:beer:

Not only is it the worst paid airline, it is now certain to have a lock on the hero list of “Most miserable companies to work for in America”

 

[trainer8]

Collelo was furloughed on the merger announcement date, which is what the arbitrator used when he "drew the line".

Odell was an active pilot on that day.

Spin it however you like, though.

Enter the no spin zone....actually, DC was an active US Airways Pilot. He was flying for the Embraer Division of US Airways, Inc., otherwise known as Mid-Atlantic Airlines (MDA), which is/was US Airways. If that were not true, the bottom 100 pilots---former MDA pilots---wouldn't be on the list. Call it what you want. Say he wasn't active if you want. The real point is Nicolau did not consider him active, even after another Arbitor in another arbitration (MDA Asset Sale) received testimony of the fact that MDA was US Airways.

More fodder for the MDA suit. DC...and others in his position will be made whole...eventually.

T8

 

[AAflyer]

Sparky, you just proved the point. :smash:

The mentality of Eastern Mechanics is now entrenched among USAir pilots. Bitchin and slow operations in the cockpit for the next 15-20 years. Most HP pilots don’t even know what happened to Eastern Airlines; don’t worry, many of your greybeard co-pilots started their career there. You will have plenty of cockpit conversations to relive some history. Ha! Beer is on the Captain.:beer:

Not only is it the worst paid airline, it is now certain to have a lock on the hero list of “Most miserable companies to work for in America”

That is not a good excuse. I was very young at that time as well. However Eastern is a case study in labor/managment relations. It is a must read regardless of age.

AAflyer

 

[OPECJet]

That is not a good excuse. I was very young at that time as well. However Eastern is a case study in labor/managment relations. It is a must read regardless of age.

AAflyer

So is Airways. Maybe a different outcome, but only if things change.

 

[Groucho]

Why will LOA93 stay the rule of the East for some time to come. Because the East pilots want to gain from what ever attrition they get, even with age 65, and because this list will be the starting point for the next merger. No single contract or combined working list no easy merge with anyone one else.

When you are a 50+ yr/old East pilot who is junior than the quickest way to make money is to upgrade and we still have a lot of attrition going on. There will be no new contract soon.

 

[JetMonkey]

Enter the no spin zone....actually, DC was an active US Airways Pilot. He was flying for the Embraer Division of US Airways, Inc., otherwise known as Mid-Atlantic Airlines (MDA), which is/was US Airways. If that were not true, the bottom 100 pilots---former MDA pilots---wouldn't be on the list. Call it what you want. Say he wasn't active if you want. The real point is Nicolau did not consider him active, even after another Arbitor in another arbitration (MDA Asset Sale) received testimony of the fact that MDA was US Airways.

More fodder for the MDA suit. DC...and others in his position will be made whole...eventually.

T8

He may have been on the E170 side of USAir but according to the 5/05 seniority list, he was listed as "furloughed" and that's what Nicolau used. If the list was wrong or fictious, why didn't you guys fight that instead?