Awa/usairs Arbitration In !

[DustyBottoms]

I really don't give a rat's a$$ what any of you think. That's why I lead a totally 'stress-free' life; that and the fact that I invested my money well (meaning somewhere other than aviation).

DA

HAhaha! A stress free life? You say this after posting over a couple thousand word diatribe?

…and the fact that you needed to tell everyone how well of an investor you are, was priceless! You can’t get drama like that!!! –I love it!!!!!!

I’m not even going to delve back into your essays for your hypocrisies, I need a drink. It’s still Cinco de Mayo somewhere, right? Or is that 5 o’clock?

 

[TWA Dude]

If it will make you feel better listening, I will tell you that I don't have a dog in this fight. That said, I have done a fair amount of consulting work, writte, researched and know that industry quite well.

PD: that was a well thought-out post but by claiming Nicolau didn't follow ALPA Merger Policy all you're really doing is interpreting it differently. I don't want to put myself in the position of trying to defend Nicolau's reasoning so suffice it to say you and him don't see eye to eye on the meaning of "career expectations" which by necessity means making certain guesses regarding the future.

 

[tomgoodman]

Course reversal?

All this accomplished is 'guarantee' that there will NOT be an integration of the two carriers...

Hmmm... If this is true, what are the chances that Parker will try to SELL one of the pieces, collect a fat bonus, and move on?

 

[Saabslime]

I find it laughable at how some on the east side say that the arbitrator didn't follow ALPA merger policy while their MEC's only argument was for DOH which was specifically removed from that same policy years ago. Hypocrisy at its finest.

I don't think I've ever seen more self centered, selfish, irrational behavior from a group of people who want to call themselves professionals. All this talk about burning down the house (even though the company didn't have a hand in this whatsoever) without any regard for the fact that there are thousands of other employees outside of the pilot group who's livelihood is tied to the success of this company. You have no one to blame but yourselves. Your MEC and merger committee fought for what you as a pilot group directed them to fight for and they did no matter how unreasonable it was and lost the argument (as if it stood any chance in the first place). It's time to pick yourselves up, act like adults and move on. With some of the attitudes I've seen displayed so far, I shudder to think that some of you actually have children that look up to you as role models.

 

[hooter]

I am totally pissed on the basis of principal and integrity. Nicolau, the arbitrator, has neither and has totally f**** over the furloughed U guys with 15 years seniority and basically every U pilot that was furloughed. It should have no bearing on weather a pilot has been furloughed as to where he should rightly be on the new list. This is a matter of right and wrong and the U GUYS GOT WRONGED BIG TIME. Hope all the junior aw guys enjoy their windfall.

 

[Superbird]

Its called Time in Service. The USAir MEC's proposed list made corrections for the time in service, thus slotting 14 year AAA pilots with year AWA pilots.

Why should you get credit for 14 years if you've only contributed to the operation during the 7 years you were working? All of the USAir F.O.'s are TOP of the PAY scale for longevity, making more than junior AWA pilots.

 

[AutoBus]

Would it be so bad to let some 55 year old poor bastard who has seen the brink of hell in this career have a little dignity by being a Captain the last 5 years of his career?

The die has been cast....the product it will make is anyone's guess. I wouldn't expect smooth sailing.

A350

It's not my job to fix the 55 year old's career, I have my own problems..

 

[UALjan15]

No where that I know of in ALPA merger policy does it call for an examination or prediction of the financial future of a carrier.

Except for the part about "career expectations." The arbitrator may have deduced that without looking at financial future, career expectations would be impossible to gauge.

Had the Arbritator figured the 'retirements' into his calculation, and placed a 5-7 yr (maybe less) 'base fence' (and probably an 7-8 yr fence on the wide-body flying

And honestly, this is along the lines of what I expected.

Instead, it seems that he gave, all of the windfall of the retirements on the East side to the West side, and created little or NO career progression on the East side.

Here's where I really don't understand you. If I have active east guys slotted all around me on the list in pretty much relative seniority, how are they NOT participating in the windfall of the retirements??

how many times has Parker said that he has no problem with continuing to operate as two separate carriers with two separate contracts??

Pure posturing and rhetoric. If he says "we really need to combine the operation to capture all of the synergies," then he just gave ALPA a lot more leverage at the negotiating table. Plan on him saying more about how he just can't afford to combine the operation, and then quietly testing our Transition Agreement wherever he thinks he can get away with it.

And, all because the arbritator did not follow ALPA merger policy. As a 'fair' integration, as the policy calls for, would have meant everyone, (East, West, furloughees, etc) move ahead, benefited.

Your whole "unfair" argument seems to hinge on the treatment of the furloughees, not the active pilots on the list. The arbitrator obviously concluded that they shouldn't get the same treatment as active pilots. I happen to agree with him, but I'm willing to listen to examples from the past of how furloughees have been integrated.

Thanks for the response.

 

[nwaredtail]

Your whole "unfair" argument seems to hinge on the treatment of the furloughees, not the active pilots on the list. The arbitrator obviously concluded that they shouldn't get the same treatment as active pilots. I happen to agree with him, but I'm willing to listen to examples from the past of how furloughees have been integrated.

Thanks for the response.[/QUOTE]

That's what I took also. Instead of the East furloughees being p'ssed at the AWA guys, who have never been furloughed, why don't they thank the senior USAir pilot's who gave all of the narrowbody flying away during the contract negotiations to try to save their own pensions? This extended their furloughs and now screws them even more.

Constantly amazed at the thought process of pilots.

 

[Heavy Set]

I am confused. What has happened to returning furloughed pilots that already returned? If they returned prior to the decision, were they blended in fairly, and the guys that did not return now go below the bottom AWA guy? Or, were all of the furloughed USAir pilots placed below the bottom AWA pilot? If someone bypassed recall, are they now screwed? Could they have come back at a higher number if they had not bypassed?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I am totally pissed on the basis of principal and integrity. Nicolau, the arbitrator, has neither and has totally f**** over the furloughed U guys with 15 years seniority and basically every U pilot that was furloughed. It should have no bearing on weather a pilot has been furloughed as to where he should rightly be on the new list. This is a matter of right and wrong and the U GUYS GOT WRONGED BIG TIME. Hope all the junior aw guys enjoy their windfall.

hooter you are making no sense what so ever!! The furloughed people were UNEMPLOYED!!! AAA was furloughed 18 years deep while AWA was hiring and had pilots working. This sense of entitlement is ridiculous. U was not recalling pilots and was on the verge of furloughing even more. Did you miss the part about being furloughed 18 yrs deep????? Common sense should sink in here any minute now .

WD.

 

[FR8mastr]

Here's where I really don't understand you. If I have active east guys slotted all around me on the list in pretty much relative seniority, how are they NOT participating in the windfall of the retirements??

Thanks for the response.

Because the guys that are slotted around you are much older, so right about the time you and the guys around you start to upgrade they retire.

So a guy from the east that would have had a couple of years as captain before being shown the door now will not get that chance because of the much younger "relative seniority" West pilots that are now senior to him

What this means basically is in 5-10 years the remaining West pilots will hold the vast majority of the Captain slots, while the EX East pilots will hold the FO slots

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I am confused. What has happened to returning furloughed pilots that already returned? If they returned prior to the decision, were they blended in fairly, and the guys that did not return now go below the bottom AWA guy? Or, were all of the furloughed USAir pilots placed below the bottom AWA pilot? If someone bypassed recall, are they now screwed? Could they have come back at a higher number if they had not bypassed?

HS, look at it like this. AAA was not in the proccess of recalling pilots when this thing was announced nor was there even a hint that they ever would. Now if a furloughed AAA pilot had returned prior to the announcement of the merger then by all means they should be blended in.

WD.

 

[UALjan15]

What this means basically is in 5-10 years the remaining West pilots will hold the vast majority of the Captain slots, while the EX East pilots will hold the FO slots

Well, had AWA played in our own sandbox and left AAA in the hands of their own top-notch management team, 5-10 years down the road I'd be a mid-level Captain in PHX. Now, if I ever want to upgrade, I face a transcon commute and a hostile work environment.

So here's a magic question: If you could go back and undo the merger, would you? My guess is that the vast majority of AWA guys would go it on our own in a heartbeat, even with this integration. I've yet to hear an AAA guy say that they should have gone it alone, because deep down, they knew where that road was leading.

 

[AutoBus]

I am totally pissed on the basis of principal and integrity. Nicolau, the arbitrator, has neither and has totally f**** over the furloughed U guys with 15 years seniority and basically every U pilot that was furloughed. It should have no bearing on weather a pilot has been furloughed as to where he should rightly be on the new list. This is a matter of right and wrong and the U GUYS GOT WRONGED BIG TIME. Hope all the junior aw guys enjoy their windfall.

In your bizarre little world how would you have merged the lists? Realistically?