AWA/USAir seniority integration??

[321 busdriver]

You guys need to resort to pm ing eachother. Your war has gotten old!

"The new management team at TWA has done an exceptional job positioning the airline for long-term growth," said Robert Wolfe, president of Pratt & Whitney's Large Commercial Engine unit.

"We're encouraged by TWA's financial restructuring and improved financial performance," said Ron Woodard, president of Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

ILFC President and Chief Executive Officer Steven F. Udvar- Hazy said, "TWA's decision to lease 10 new Boeing 757s from ILFC and to enter into a commitment with Boeing for additional 757s is a reflection of the dynamic and positive growth of the airline."

You sound like these guys......

 

[typhoonpilot]

Thanks Busdriver, I'll second that.


TP

 

[BeCareful!]

MickeySlap -

You strike me as a similar sort to the infamous C#!& Mu**, a U pilot who spends most of his life championing causes on the Internet by quoting newspapers and their ever-accurate reports on airline matters.

Without any doubt whatsoever, US Airways' current situation relative to its proposed merger partner is far stronger, on all fronts, than TWA's was in 2001.

Newspapers are in the business of selling newspapers. Quoting them in part on the Internet is becoming such an old, tired game used to mislead and flame.

What's your problem with seeing a fair integration here? Are AWA's current career expectations that great as a stand alone airline that you think a stapler is needed? Whatever your strong need is here, I feel sorry for you; you're grasping at straws trying to compare US Airways to TWA. You'll see, but in the meantime, enjoy your life in CyberSpace; it must be very rewarding for you.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

MickeySlap -

You strike me as a similar sort to the infamous C#!& Mu**, a U pilot who spends most of his life championing causes on the Internet by quoting newspapers and their ever-accurate reports on airline matters.

Without any doubt whatsoever, US Airways' current situation relative to its proposed merger partner is far stronger, on all fronts, than TWA's was in 2001.

Newspapers are in the business of selling newspapers. Quoting them in part on the Internet is becoming such an old, tired game used to mislead and flame.

What's your problem with seeing a fair integration here? Are AWA's current career expectations that great as a stand alone airline that you think a stapler is needed? Whatever your strong need is here, I feel sorry for you; you're grasping at straws trying to compare US Airways to TWA. You'll see, but in the meantime, enjoy your life in CyberSpace; it must be very rewarding for you.

BC,

You may not like what Mickey is stating but it does have some rings of truth to it. These terms that keep getting tossed around like fair, career expectation and my personal favorite windfall. What is fair?? No one really knows!! Is it fair to the person who chose to come to AWA and make a career as opposed to AAA and now lose huge chunks of their seniority to save another??? While a very nobel thought, most would never kill themselves to save the life of another. Career expectation, without this merger what is the true career expectation of AAA employees?? This is another tough one, because how long will GE, PVT investors and the Federal Gov't continue to support AAA who by the way have openly stated that this is best shot and last at survival. Windfall, is it not a windfall for AAA to be employed past the end of the month?? I realize that this sounds nasty and really one sided and for that I apologize but when you make comments like climbing on the backs of others to advance it brings to mind the real world. Sorry but that's the way big business has always and will continue to work. There is no other career that carries with it the expectation of remaining in the same position you have today post merger. In fact in the real world most are either demoted or replaced outright. Nice job to the ALPA attorneys for writing such a policy.

WD.

 

[SUNDOWN]

Is it fair to the person who chose to come to AWA and make a career as opposed to AAA and now lose huge chunks of their seniority to save another
WD.



When did you make the "choice" to go to AWA Vs US.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Is it fair to the person who chose to come to AWA and make a career as opposed to AAA and now lose huge chunks of their seniority to save another
WD.



When did you make the "choice" to go to AWA Vs US.

Well truth be told AAA was never on my radar!!! Location they are east I am west.

WD.

 

[aa73]

and that gets resolved by the weaker carrier losing its rights and the dominant carrier gets carte blanche to do whatever the devil it pleases. Now what I can’t for the life of me understand is why a few of you are pressing for the latter scenario. I don’t want to lose my job any more than the next guy but it seems a few of you (AA guys, hmmm) are perfectly happy to gain at the expense of others. I’m not.[/font][/color]


Now, as far pilots getting screwed by arbitration I’d much rather be screwed that way than by fellow pilots. At least the arbitrator doesn’t stand to gain from it.

Gain from what? What exactly did natives gain from this whole deal? A whole bunch of new debt? Displacements form CA to FO? Massive furloughs from both groups due to the massive debt taken on? Longer upgrade times?

We didn't gain SQUAT from this merger. Just another addition of a disgruntled pilot group. What, you say, we gained 100 more airplanes? Well guess what - they are there to replace the 727s and F100s... so the net gain is... zero. I guarantee if AA wouldn't have taken on TWA we'd be ordering new Boeings just about now.

As for your "carte blanche" analogy.... getting through to you guys is just as difficult. Maybe the deal was crafted in light of the fact that your career expectations weren't exactly stellar, due to the condition TWA found itself in 2000... and that any other deal crafted for you guys would have given you tremendous windfalls in light of said financial condition. Whatever. I'm not in any position to judge what's fair or not.

Like I said earlier, you all like to say that you were "powerless" to fight what the APA put together. Bullsheet! ALPA as a national union had PLENTY of clout to fight the APA. The reason they didn't was because they were trying to recruit us (fat chance.)

So I say, take 'em (ALPA) for what they're worth. I know I'd be contributing plenty towards that lawsuit if I was exTWA.

Regards,
73

 

[TheDonger]

Hey, it looks like YOUR CEO is taking this on. ALPA is going to have their hand's full on this one. Like I said before, if the AWA pilots would just THINK for a few moments they're the ones that will gain as so many AAA guys are retiring - 1.2 pilots per day just on retirements alone. Good luck to all.

BC,

You may not like what Mickey is stating but it does have some rings of truth to it. These terms that keep getting tossed around like fair, career expectation and my personal favorite windfall. What is fair?? No one really knows!! Is it fair to the person who chose to come to AWA and make a career as opposed to AAA and now lose huge chunks of their seniority to save another??? While a very nobel thought, most would never kill themselves to save the life of another. Career expectation, without this merger what is the true career expectation of AAA employees?? This is another tough one, because how long will GE, PVT investors and the Federal Gov't continue to support AAA who by the way have openly stated that this is best shot and last at survival. Windfall, is it not a windfall for AAA to be employed past the end of the month?? I realize that this sounds nasty and really one sided and for that I apologize but when you make comments like climbing on the backs of others to advance it brings to mind the real world. Sorry but that's the way big business has always and will continue to work. There is no other career that carries with it the expectation of remaining in the same position you have today post merger. In fact in the real world most are either demoted or replaced outright. Nice job to the ALPA attorneys for writing such a policy.

WD.

 

[TWA Dude]

What exactly did natives gain from this whole deal?

Furlough fodder.

A whole bunch of new debt?

You seem to have difficulty differentiating between the pilots of TWA and AA management. Neither of us had anything to do with the buyout yet AA did give you, the APA, the priviledge of deciding how we were to be integrated. Quiz time: who saddled AMR with more debt in a questionable business decision? AA. Who do most AAers blame for the decision? AA. Who do many AAers take out their anger on? Ex-TWA pilots. Now I know what you're thinking: "why should we AAers suffer when we can make the TWAers suffer instead?" It's a valid thought yet it serves to differentiate between you and I.

Massive furloughs from both groups due to the massive debt taken on?

Funny, you're the first master economist who's made a direct connection between long-term debt and furloughs.

I guarantee if AA wouldn't have taken on TWA we'd be ordering new Boeings just about now.

Well, that's another difference between you and I. You possess amazing prognosticative powers; you know exactly what everyone is or was going to do. I don't.

Whatever. I'm not in any position to judge what's fair or not.

STOP THE PRESSES!! HISTORY IS BEING MADE!! I'm not exaggerating, this is the first time I've read an AAer make this admission. Finally we agree on something.

Like I said earlier, you all like to say that you were "powerless" to fight what the APA put together. Bullsheet! ALPA as a national union had PLENTY of clout to fight the APA. The reason they didn't was because they were trying to recruit us (fat chance.)

True, ALPA didn't defend us, however, hearing this come from you is like a rapist chastizing his victim for not having stronger locks on her house.

 

[BeCareful!]

I realize that this sounds nasty and really one sided and for that I apologize but when you make comments like climbing on the backs of others to advance it brings to mind the real world.
WD.

When did I make a comment like that?

One word, WD: Fences.

And as far as your choice to work for a western carrier, not to worry: your A330 pairing out of CLT won't be happening anytime soon.

BC

 

[typhoonpilot]

Is it fair to the person who chose to come to AWA and make a career as opposed to AAA and now lose huge chunks of their seniority to save another
WD.

Sorry, but this argument holds no water whatsoever. For every USAir guy who went to America West an America West pilot who went to USAir can be found. You are just thinking about recently, which is pretty typical when making selfish arguments. America West had their rough patches over the years and guys bailed during that time, some came to Piedmont or USAir.

The same argument was trying to be made by UAL pilots. There were USAir pilots who were furloughed or had left and went to United in the early 90s, they tended to forget about the UAL pilots who were furloughed or left UAL in the late 70s and early 80s to come to USAir. A judge or arbiter faced with these facts will simply throw the argument out as a wash, as it only affects a very small minority of the pilot population on both sides.

TP

 

[FurloughedAgain]

--OFF TOPIC--

BeCareful,

You said, "You strike me as a similar sort to the infamous Ch!$ Mun#..."

ROFLMAO!!!!

 

[aa73]

Furlough fodder.

You're kidding, right? There are 1800 of us "natives" on the street, dude!

You seem to have difficulty differentiating between the pilots of TWA and AA management. Neither of us had anything to do with the buyout yet AA did give you, the APA, the priviledge of deciding how we were to be integrated.

Well, duh! We were the acquiring carrier! What did you expect? For AA management to give ALPA the decision???

Quiz time: who saddled AMR with more debt in a questionable business decision? AA. Who do most AAers blame for the decision? AA. Who do many AAers take out their anger on? Ex-TWA pilots. Now I know what you're thinking: "why should we AAers suffer when we can make the TWAers suffer instead?" It's a valid thought yet it serves to differentiate between you and I.

You're wrong, my friend. I don't take my anger out on TWA pilots, given the # of friends I have over there. I take my anger out on ALPA for not having fought for you guys, and on AA management on deciding to do this merger from the get-go.

Funny, you're the first master economist who's made a direct connection between long-term debt and furloughs.Well, that's another difference between you and I. You possess amazing prognosticative powers; you know exactly what everyone is or was going to do. I don't.STOP THE PRESSES!! HISTORY IS BEING MADE!!

No, no, no "master economist" here, not by a long shot. Just the facts.

I'm not exaggerating, this is the first time I've read an AAer make this admission. Finally we agree on something. True, ALPA didn't defend us, however, hearing this come from you is like a rapist chastizing his victim for not having stronger locks on her house.[/QUOTE]

With the exception that a rape is a horrendous crime and a seniority integration is... well, a seniority integration. And that is one of the many things your union dues should pay for - proper representation, in the case that your pilot group deems the integration "unfair." Which is what this whole debate is basically about.

Anyways, I think we can both agree to a much "friendlier" merger process between AWA and U. I sincerely hope you don't end up with the short end of the stick, given what you've been through.

Regards,
73

 

[AA717driver]

Let's keep in mind--9/11 put me and AA73 and TWAdude on the street. Absent that act, we would still be working at AA, IMO.

Good luck with THIS merger, dude. I'm pulling for you.TC

 

[TWA Dude]

I am now going into a fetal position and sucking my thumb and crying, "mommy" every five seconds.