AWA/USAir seniority integration??

[Focus]

TWA DUDE, You say you were screwed at TWA, and many American guys say you were on your way out the door anyways. Now your saying you want the ALPA Merger Policy to be fair as it is written so the guys at USAIR can have a fair deal when they merge with AWA or what ever it will be called even with a large portion of their pilot group already on the street and the ones actively flying already pursuing other opportunities or holding on for dear life to a sinking ship.

Instead of laughing at your utopian idealogy I will try to explain this in its simplest terms. Expectations of many families across the above two airlines will be affected by the consolidation of these two pilot groups. Instead of rambling about the past why not state a solution that you believe to be fair for all parties.

Simply stating you want it to be fair doesnt FLY. Depending on who you ask on any given day there will always be some that will say its unfair. For your sake I hope your not on the short end of the deal again. It would be even tougher coming back a third time.

Enough has been said. I hope this provides some direction for you.

 

[Boeingman]

......

 

[TWA Dude]

Instead of rambling about the past why not state a solution that you believe to be fair for all parties.

Are you Slapnutz in disguise? How many times will I have to repeat myself? A fair solution is one which doesn't harm or create a windfall for either, ie, ALPA MERGER POLICY. Figuring that out requires research and number-crunching and that's what merger committees do. If a miracle occurs both sides will agree and that's that. More than likely there will be disagreement and then the fair process known as arbitration kicks in. Note that "fair" doesn't mean I'm gonna like the result. Suffice it to say had TWA/AA been allowed to go to arbitration I believe the results would've been more favorable for my seniority number. (After all, if the APA hadn't been afraid of arbitration they wouldn't have objected to it, right?.) If you're asking me to come up with my own integration formula I'm unable and unwilling to do so. To do so would also be pointless and inflammatory.

Simply stating you want it to be fair doesnt FLY. Depending on who you ask on any given day there will always be some that will say its unfair.

Is there an echo in here? Have I not been saying that all along? I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall here. So lemme ask you, then, if not the ALPA merger policy then how should our seniority lists be merged?

 

[Focus]

Your still sitting on the fence. Dig in and let us know how you really feel. Otherwise stop rambling.

Get out of the CrashPad and go for a jog.

 

[semperfido]

date of hire at first alpa airline....national list for merger/job change purposes

 

[TWA Dude]

Get out of the CrashPad and go for a jog.

Good guess, but wrong. I'm at home on the couch with my puppy snoozing on my lap. She's getting used to my shouted epithets at my computer screen.

 

[Focus]

Now that was funny

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

"A fair solution is one which doesn't harm or create a windfall for either, ie, ALPA MERGER POLICY. "


Since none of the TWA pilots were senior to any of the AA pilots...I fail to see how no harm could be done to any AA pilot who has anyone placed above him in seniority. Thats why all new hire pilots at any airline are placed one number junior to the most junior pilot prior to them. Since the TWA pilots were days away from being unemployed...any seniority at AA was a windfall. The above mentioned ALPA Merger Policy is nothing more than window dressing as you admit. Its not a policy...its a dodge.

"More than likely there will be disagreement and then the fair process known as arbitration kicks in. "

Ask any airline pilot whose contract went to binding arbitration how fair it was. Try the Alaska Airlines guys....for examples. If your negotiating commitee is foolish enough to cast its lot and that of the pilots it represents with an arbitraitor....than you need a new commitee. The APA officers and contract were formulated to serve its members....AA pilots.

The pilots on the seniority list at TWA the day of the announced merger were willing to gamble their careers with a twice failed and dwindleing airline destined for CH7.

None of the AA pilots voted for the CBA at TWA that included your ALPA Merger policy. They voted for the CBA crafted by AMR and APA that did not include any such language. Why then should APA abandone what its members ratified and use the standard set by TWA pilots who had their own best interest in mind when they set the ALPA merger policy in their CBA?

Knowing that TWA was on its last days....it seems awfull convenient to vote yourselfs a nice merger policy that ensures a windfall via some arbitraitor included in a contract the other group of pilots had no say or vote in. But then to pass yourself off as a guy just looking for fairness is....well less then honest and very self serving.

 

[FlyingDawg]

Instead of rambling about the past why not state a solution that you believe to be fair for all parties.

I don't have a pony in this race, but let me suggest a solution.

Take the two pilot lists of active pilots flying mainline equipment (exclude MDA and furloughed pilots) from each carrier and figure each pilots relative position on their pre-merger seniority lists (expressed as a percentage). Then merge the two list so each pilot would remain at the same percentile post-merger as he was pre-merger.

The ex-mainline employees currently furloughed or flying for MDA would follow this post-merger list using the same formula as it relates to their relative postion to recall (I'm assuming AWA has furloughed pilots as well, if not then the remaining US pilots would be stapled in order of recall).

This preservation of one's relative position leaves an individual with the same opportunity to access benefits and protections post merger as before the merger. The concept of preserving the relative position might be preferred over others that distort relative position and thereby, create windfalls and losses that are counterproductive to harmonious and productive labor relations.

Good luck to all!

 

[Doug Parker]

There are NO AWA pilots on furlough. In fact, we have been hiring steadily and have 40+ in the pool with rumors of possibly emptying the pool and doing more hiring before the year is over.

As was said before - This merger will not negatively affect any AWA employees.

We are acquiring a dying giant to take control of gates, routes, and aircraft to become more competitive in today's struggling airline environment.

If not for this merger, U would slowly fly west into the sunset with Eastern, Braniff, PanAm, etc......A U pilot's career expectation - the unemployment line - thanks to crappy management.

1 word - STAPLE












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