AWA/USAir Deal Near

[Jim320]

I wonder how much information on possible seniority integration the US Air MEC is getting prior to any announcement. The union at AWA is totally out of the loop on this one.



Jim





http://www.alphapilottraining.com

 

[SWA/FO]

Maybe they want to keep the US Airways name because they have more aircraft. It would cost more money repainting the US Airway birds then repainting the AWA birds.

 

[dlredline]

I believe the US Airways MEC will sacrifice the furloughees in exchange for a better integration for the active pilots. . .

You can bet the farm on this one!

 

[JetMonkey]

Maybe they want to keep the US Airways name because they have more aircraft. It would cost more money repainting the US Airway birds then repainting the AWA birds.

So what? you think painting airplanes a dark color to fly in the 115 degree desert is a good idea?

 

[Reebo]

So what? you think painting airplanes a dark color to fly in the 115 degree desert is a good idea?

im sure when the new usairways emerges they will change the paint scheme, similar to united

 

[ash5855]

I think the immediate fight is going to be who gets knocked to the street when GE takes 60 of their aircraft back. If they are taken from both airlines and both airlines are operated separately for some time, then both sides could see significant furloughs. This may happen before any seniority list discussions are held.

This, I believe is the million dollar question for junior pilots at AWA. You would think that most of the "fat cutting" would come from the USair side (hopefully pre merger). They are in Chapter 11 where it is easier to change leases and, from the looks of it, need to cut alot more fat before this would be a go. They are still losing a ton of money while AWA is profitable and currently taking delivery of 20 or so Airbuses (this will probably change).

 

[PHXFLYR]

Boy, I sure hope so.... anything has to be better than that "night camo paint scheme.. YIKK!!!

 

[CitationLover]

have you seen some US Airways airplanes lately?

they all need a new paint job.

i vote for PSA2 as the new name. have PS2 in the seatbacks.
young kids would love it. name recognition for those older travellers out west.

 

[Tomct]

This is NOT GOOD! Bad Cool Aid for the Cacti folks!

 

[iflyhigh]

US Airways has already announced that they are getting rid of 10 aircraft at the end of summer and eliminating some routes to the Bahamas. Thus, only 50 aircraft to go.

Intergrating to US Air and AWA is going to take time. AWA has a much lower cost than US Air, despite US Air cutting cuts. Plus, AWA pilots get paid the same salary regardless of aircraft. I can't see management giving this up either, thus I would think US Air pilot contract will probably be modified to reflect one pay scale. This will definitely make people mad. US Air pilots have already taken numerous paycuts and now they would be looking at another one.

There are alot of issues to address before you can effectively run these two airlines as one. I am sure its not just the pilot contract that has to be modified. I would imagine all employee groups contracts would be modified, thus bringing US Air costs even lower.

Now has anybody at US Air commuters heard anything about what happens to them? Do they come with the merger, or are they sold to Mesa or somebody? AWA does not have RJ and I do not believe management wants to go down that path. Plus what about Mid-Atlantic? They were being consolidated under US Air mainline, what happens to these jets?

Alot of questions, not alot of answers.

iflyhigh

 

[Soulfly]

Doesn't matter ifly. Management will walk away from the train wreck with millions ala Wolf, Goodwin, etc.

Their only comment a year from now will be "that's the best we could do given where the industry was."

Some old story. History always repeats itself.


Peace...

 

[mamba20]

I actually tend to think that the regionals will be just fine, in fact we will probably benefit from it. I think Mesa is going to be phased out and AWAC and CHQ will pick up the slack for both. I cant see PSA being sold to Mesa, Mesa dosent have the money and we are the only part of the Air Group system that makes money. Why give that up?

 

[ilinipilot]

I thought Mesa had lots of cash to burn. They were talking about giving airways 150 million right???

D

 

[Cactus73]

Doesn't matter ifly. Management will walk away from the train wreck with millions ala Wolf, Goodwin, etc.

Their only comment a year from now will be "that's the best we could do given where the industry was."

Some old story. History always repeats itself.

Peace...

Ain't that the truth. I can hear it now:

"Originally we forcasted the need to shed 60 aircraft, but as we continued our efforts to join these fine corporations we found that high fuel prices and general overcapacity in the industry are just too much to handle. Despite the best efforts of our all star employee line up we will be closing the PHX and PHL hubs effective immediately.

In a side note, VP's (insert many names) have decided to pursue new career opportunities and will be taking advantage of early opt-out clauses in their pre-merger contracts. We wish them the best during these trying times!

Thanks for listening to this weeks hotline and thanks for working so hard to make us the premier airline of choice."

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Just announced, the new name is Braniff.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I actually tend to think that the regionals will be just fine, in fact we will probably benefit from it. I think Mesa is going to be phased out ..

Mesa "phased out"? YGBSM. Mesa is one of the players putting up the cash. I guess you could dream, though.

 

[AnimalTale]

Originally Posted by PHXFLYR
And thats all it is .... a guess. Funny how this AWA/USAir gig hasn't really progressed much beyond the rumor stage and the children of Flight Info get themselves all worked up into a lather. Whadda ya' all say we sit back and see what develops first.


PHXFLYR


Hey bro,

I say the same thing and I pray it doesnt happen! I have a lot of GREAT FRIENDS at cactus.

A good source at Cactus told me the deal WILL happen and the details are being worked out. I asked him why your union and employee groups would not protest and start a big disruption. He said it was too early to know the details.

He did not seem too disturbed, so this makes me think that the Cactus guys will be protected. My feelings are that PARKER, HIS MANAGEMENT, & USAIR MANAGEMENT are the only beneficiaries of this transaction. If this happens PHX will be done. Remember PSA and Usair? Usair bought PSA for westcoast presence!!! What really happened was USAir managers got rich and they got rid of the westcoast.

I dont want to see any airline die or any airline employees lose their jobs, but if this merger goes through---Cactus guys need to retain their jobs, bases and airplanes through fences and at all costs...PERIOD. Priority has to be given to the Cactus employees. ( By the way, IMHO, guns in the cockpit and mergers dont mix.)

Good luck and I hope this is only going to be a code-share.
__________________
People dont fail;They give up!!!

 

[ThisistheDream]

If this is a merger between AWA and USair and not a buyout of USair by AWA, wouldnt both employees groups have a fair say and have a fair share when it comes down to future jobs, equipment, etc?? If this was AWA buying USAir then for sure you would expect that the AWA get a better deal for job secutiry like what happened with AA when they bought TWA, but from what i have read this is a merger not a buyout situation?? For AWA i think they would be far better off not getting involved with USair given there current status. I think AWA is a good airline with a bright future and want them to succed

 

[TWA Dude]

If this was AWA buying USAir then for sure you would expect that the AWA get a better deal for job secutiry like what happened with AA when they bought TWA, but from what i have read this is a merger not a buyout situation??

Why should it matter? Neither pilot group should be entitled to a windfall (ie, AA over TWA). Regardless it's still not known exactly what the nature of this union will be. Neither side can afford to buy anyone; it'll be up to the moneybags to determine what the combined entity will look like.

 

[Soulfly]

Two Words. Career expectations. NO windfalls. Right from ALPA's by-laws.

DOH was removed.

AWA- 5 to 6 year upgrade. More airbuses coming.

USAIR- More than likely out of business by year's end. (Maybe, well who knows.) 15 Year F.O's. Upgrade. Yeah, sure. Losing 10 more planes.

I am not a math professor, but seems rather clear.

 

[Cactus73]

Why should it matter? Neither pilot group should be entitled to a windfall (ie, AA over TWA). Regardless it's still not known exactly what the nature of this union will be. Neither side can afford to buy anyone; it'll be up to the moneybags to determine what the combined entity will look like.

I agree neither side should be entitled to a windfall. But you can be sure that career expectations have to be accounted for. If this leads to (whay you consider) a windfall for the AWA pilots, so be it.

This is very different than the TWA deal. It can be argued that TWA was not going bankrupt and the TWA guys had career expectations that were quite different than the USAir guys have today. TWA was a prepackaged BK where the labor groups were forced to give up quite a bit under heavy threats from management.

USAir is already in BK court and is likely close to liquidation. Who cares what the transaction is called in the end and what the name of the airline will be after the transaction? The AWA pilots have career expectations that are substantially better than the USAir guys.

As Doug Parker has stated in the past, we will do just fine if we remain a stand alone operation and aren't merged.

Can the USAir guys claim the same?

I agree that both sides should be treated fairly. But this isn't a charity case, this involves people lives and families.

 

[seefive]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter. TWA was near bankruptcy at the time and the employees were lucky to be acquired by AA. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed everything. But.........if TWA was a standalone company now, it probably would be out of business. As it is, there are many furloughed pilots but at least they are still on the AA seniority list.

No offense intended, just my take.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Sea 5;


I wouldn't be so quick to draw that conclusion. Shortly before the AA/TWA massacre, AWA and TWA formed a comprehensive code share agreement. Prior to that,there were a lot of rumors of a possible merger.Sure there financials were pretty shakey, but to say that TWA would have folded...don't be so sure.


PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

I agree neither side should be entitled to a windfall. But you can be sure that career expectations have to be accounted for. If this leads to (whay you consider) a windfall for the AWA pilots, so be it.

I ask this rhetorically, but what are "career expectations" and what constitutes a windfall? Guess what, each side will define these things differently. At TWA/AA it didn't matter because the APA got to decide and impose its view. How will it be for AWA/US? ALPA merger policy ends up in binding arbitration.

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter.

Do I? Or perhaps you're just reading what you expect to read. My bottom line is that I don't believe the process was fair to the TWA pilots and should this AWA/US thing go through it's my sincere hope that it be a fair process. I'm honest enough to admit that my idea of a fair integration will differ from a US pilot.

 

[ironspud]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter. TWA was near bankruptcy at the time and the employees were lucky to be acquired by AA. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed everything. But.........if TWA was a standalone company now, it probably would be out of business. As it is, there are many furloughed pilots but at least they are still on the AA seniority list.

No offense intended, just my take.

My, my. You just can't fix "stupid".

 

[321 busdriver]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

Two Words. Career expectations. NO windfalls. Right from ALPA's by-laws.

DOH was removed.

AWA- 5 to 6 year upgrade. More airbuses coming.

USAIR- More than likely out of business by year's end. (Maybe, well who knows.) 15 Year F.O's. Upgrade. Yeah, sure. Losing 10 more planes.

I am not a math professor, but seems rather clear.

 

[Yank McCobb]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

A most excellent post that many would do well to read and heed.

 

[TheDonger]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

Wait a minute. You "Piedmont" guys were quick to staple the Empire guys like me. Don't go there. The Piedmont/USAir agreements went to arbitration with the outcome being DOH - not slotting as Piedmont pilots wanted.

I agree with career expectations being suspect to interpretation. I for one don't want to see anybody at either company get shafted if this merger happens. Clear heads must prevail and forward thinking must rule the day. There is no looking back, things are never going to be the way they were. Let's all try to be civil and go with the flow because in the end we don't have a choice if these management weenies decide to merge.

 

[Soulfly]

321, Agreed.

Of course career expectations are subject to interpretation, thats where as you say, the math gets fuzzy. What may have been in the past should have no relevance. The present is what matters. IMHO.

One things for sure. This will NOT be the nations largest LCC. Not a chance. I'm not sure anyone will be able to get Airways cost down. Even Doug Parker. Surely, not from the employee groups. Can't get blood from a turnip. Where does the cost savings come from. Million dollar question?

If J.O. gets even a little bit of a hand in this new entity, none of us will wan't to work there anyway. This is from first hand experience, unfortunately.

Apparently, not to many other people see the logic in this as well.

Entertaining for SWA though. They will sit on the sidelines drinkin a little Wild Turkey waiting for the inevitable (along with some friendly competition of course). As we wade through 4 regionals, a SH%T ton of debt, and hundreds of more furloughs. Gheez, wonder why SWA does so well. It isn't magic.


Well, just me rambling again.