AWA to hire 80+ more

[Wiskey Driver]

Well, I know of a few hired at AWA with NO PIC time. Many Eagle F/O's, a few corporate dudes, some Mesa 1900 F/O's, amd even a guy from Air whisky who can best be described as a MARGINAL aviator. I know every airline has them, but to say AWA has none is not correct.

Reebo,

Tell me something, how long did it take for ALPA to get you your job back after your incident??? Now I know that you were not refering to me because I do have PIC time but for you to make broad statements such as those are out of line considering your flying past!!!!

Those who live in glass houses should never throw stones...
WD

 

[Captain Overs]

HAL,


No low time PIC guys at AWA? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Give me a break! Thats the best one yet.

 

[Reebo]

Reebo,

Tell me something, how long did it take for ALPA to get you your job back after your incident??? Now I know that you were not refering to me because I do have PIC time but for you to make broad statements such as those are out of line considering your flying past!!!!

Those who live in glass houses should never throw stones...
WD

My incident? My flying past? not sure what you are talking about. We do have a few pilots who have been suspended or terminated, or failed a checkride or two, but im not in that group. I dont consider myself better, just fortunate. If you have a type rating or two, upgraded during your regional career, and have some turbine PIC time then you are NOT the person I was speaking of. But if you flew for 3 or 4 companies before Air Whisky, with training issues at every stop, and were late for your initial ride at Cactus, then the shoe probably fits. I hope things work out with the merger and you can continue to climb the seniority list. I think you might have mistaken me for someone else.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

My incident? My flying past? not sure what you are talking about. We do have a few pilots who have been suspended or terminated, or failed a checkride or two, but im not in that group. I dont consider myself better, just fortunate. If you have a type rating or two, upgraded during your regional career, and have some turbine PIC time then you are NOT the person I was speaking of. But if you flew for 3 or 4 companies before Air Whisky, with training issues at every stop, and were late for your initial ride at Cactus, then the shoe probably fits. I hope things work out with the merger and you can continue to climb the senoirity list. I think you might have mistaken me for someone else.

Then we obviously have each other confused!! One regional prior to AWAC and was 50min early for my intial ride here at AWA with the senior checkairman No training issues here or AWAC for that matter. I too wish you well at TSA, many many fine people there!!!!

WD.

 

[Reebo]

Then we obviously have each other confused!! One regional prior to AWAC and was 50min early for my intial ride here at AWA with the senior checkairman No training issues here or AWAC for that matter. I too wish you well at TSA, many many fine people there!!!!

WD.

Thanks, no worries

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Send me a PM sometime.


WD.

 

[Cactus73]

. Cactus73 – we can’t wait for furloughed USAir guys before we hire from the street. New blood is needed today in Vegas. Anyone work the hurricane on Sunday night? The poster that said we ran out of reserves is correct. I know two Captains that got Involuntary Pay because they were re-routed out of the 11 PM goes into the 10 PM goes as scheduling “shelled- gamed” bodies to cover the schedule due to inadequate staffing. Don’t think AWA can hold off until a merged list is agreed on. That is costing us money today due to inadequate numbers. [size]

Why is everyone on the AWA side (except me it seems) so against offering new hire positions to furloughed USAirway's pilots before hiring off the street? Would this be the right thing to do for our new Company?

Why should AWA have to hold off from doing this while the lists are being merged? I may be a little slow here but by OCTOBER AWA will no longer exist. Yes, we will be operating under the Cactus certificate during the integration, but the Corporation will be the new USAirway's.

What in the world would make it so difficult to offer new hire positions to the furloughed guys in seniority order? This would have nothing to do with the merged list and will not effect you because they would be at the bottom of our list regardless. There also can be a LOA that these "recalled" pilots cannot gain seniority over current AAA pilots when the new list is out, they will just get stapled to the bottom.

Guys, we need to start taking care of each other and work to ensure USAirway's survives, grows, and kicks ass. We are all in this together now.

I'm sorry, but if you don't have an AWA or AAA seniority number you shouldn't have any rights to either list.

On a totally different subject...to the jackass putting down the PR and others for having low time, did he send you his resume? Did you interview him? Did you observe his or other AWA pilot's during training?

Fact is buddy, we have one of the safest records in the industry. We hire top notch pilots from all walks of life and have an awesome training department that doesn't cut anyone slack just to get them through. If a pilot has trouble during training we have a non-punitive process for the pilot to go through the offers extra training. After this training the pilot has to take regular check rides and line-checks.

I had PIC turbine time when I started and got through training just fine. But you know what? We had a MESA 1900 pilot without PIC time that also got through just fine and he is a really good stick from what I understand. The check-airmen don't ask you for your resume when you go for a check ride, they hold everyone to the same high standard.

What did you get rejected by us for your crappy attitude?

rant off.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Guys, we need to start taking care of each other and work to ensure USAirway's survives, grows, and kicks ass. We are all in this together now.

I'm sorry, but if you don't have an AWA or AAA seniority number you shouldn't have any rights to either list.

On a totally different subject...to the jackass putting down the PR and others for having low time, did he send you his resume? Did you interview him? Did you observe his or other AWA pilot's during training?

Fact is buddy, we have one of the safest records in the industry. We hire top notch pilots from all walks of life and have an awesome training department that doesn't cut anyone slack just to get them through. If a pilot has trouble during training we have a non-punitive process for the pilot to go through the offers extra training. After this training the pilot has to take regular check rides and line-checks.

I had PIC turbine time when I started and got through training just fine. But you know what? We had a MESA 1900 pilot without PIC time that also got through just fine and he is a really good stick from what I understand. The check-airmen don't ask you for your resume when you go for a check ride, they hold everyone to the same high standard.

What did you get rejected by us for your crappy attitude?

rant off.[/QUOTE]

Excellent points C73, I have come to expect nothing less from you!!! Many of us are not against the hiring of furloughed AAA pilots prior to street hiring. I would support such a move but with some restrictions. That being that they come in as new hires. When you hear the stories of some of our crews who are in the company of AAA crews and they make statements to the effect of "our furloughs should all be back soon in their relative positions" it gets kinda stuck in the middle of your throat!!! I not screaming staple"em but I don't want to hear DOH either. This can work for both sides and I feel one of the best ways is to go relative seniority with some short term fence protections. Offer the senior people (2-3yrs left) an early retirement option to further lower the fence time.

Now regarding training here at AWA and the obvious attack on it and me personally, I can offer this. First we have an outstanding training dept here sure they have their ups and downs but so do all companies. We were running big classes each month along with Pt's and Pc's there were bound to be some headaches. The dept handled it in stride and we pushed on. Now for the personal comment. This is why rumors get started and are so easily dispelled. Companies have a long history of not getting involved with pilots with poor training histories, lets face it costs big bucks to train a pilot and much much more to train one with problems. Someone with a track record like that of the one REEBO spoke of wouldn't be able to hold a position flying a kite much less million dollar jets!!! Do your OWN research prior to slamming others with rumors!! They can be and often are untrue and hurtful...

WD.

 

[Reebo]

On a totally different subject...to the jackass putting down the PR and others for having low time, did he send you his resume? Did you interview him? Did you observe his or other AWA pilot's during training?


What did you get rejected by us for your crappy attitude?

rant off.

OK, I think you're refering to me. I was responding to what someone had posted that AWA had hired NO low time pilots which isnt true. Of all the folks I know who were hired at AWA in the last few years, there were a few with NO PIC time. Not saying this is wrong, just stating a fact. AWA doesn't require 1000hrs of turbine PIC time, just 1000hrs of turbine time. These folks met the requirements, interviewed, and made it through training and are obviously an asset to Cactus. I have NO beef with them. The person I mentioned as being a MARGINAL aviator, which is NOT Whiskey Driver, has what some would call a checkered past. Did he send me his resume? No, but I did work with him at Trans States and flew with many captains who were not impressed by his performance. We are talking failed checkrides, not following SOP, and even a time or to where a NASA report was filed to protect those involved. I am not making this stuff up. You can place a call to our MEC chairman who im sure would gladly tell you about this indiviual. Did I interview him? No. Did I observe him during training? No again, but I had the pleasure of speaking with one of his classmates who mentioned that he was not a model student in training. This is not a personal attack nor am I making this stuff up. The point being that with 1900 + pilots, there are a few who slip through the cracks. This happends at EVERY airline. I am not picking on AWA. Did I get turned down at the interview? No again. I just recently applied. In doing research on the company I've spoke with quite a few pilots at Cactus and it seems like a GREAT bunch of folks. This one person is obviously an exception, but he did get hired there. Sorry for the 7500 of this thread and hopefully this will put the issue to rest.

 

[TWA Dude]

Why is everyone on the AWA side (except me it seems) so against offering new hire positions to furloughed USAirway's pilots before hiring off the street?

I'm with you. As of the closing of the merger which is anticipated by early October all AWA newhires should be USair furloughees. I wish our poolies only the best and I sympathize with their position but this is the way it has to be.

 

[aroundtheblock]

Why not give a US Air guy relative seniority for the time they had active. If you were hired 12 years ago but have only 4 years active time, why can't they go in as a 4 years of seniority credit? What do you guys think of that?

 

[DustyBottoms]

I'm with you. As of the closing of the merger which is anticipated by early October all AWA newhires should be USair furloughees. I wish our poolies only the best and I sympathize with their position but this is the way it has to be.

I did disagree with you (and Cactus73).



It would be very unprofessional to interview a pilot, offer him a job, put him into a pool for class and then put a thousand or so other pilots ahead of him. But after thinking about it, it would be more unprofessional to actually bring them on the property before any of the furloughed USA guys looking for a job with us. I hope that the poolies are all working for us in the future (I have a couple of friends in the pool), but any furloughed US guy who is looking for a job with us should get priority.

 

["Luke"]

I’m afraid the poolies at AWA are on the short end of the stick. Maybe the professional thing to do is to give their positions to the US furloughees. SWA hopefuls should also give their positions to the ATA furloughed. Maybe this will become the standard; that with any collaboration between two entities, they must first hire the troubled company’s furloughed employees. What a mess

 

[TWA Dude]

It would be very unprofessional to interview a pilot, offer him a job, put him into a pool for class and then put a thousand or so other pilots ahead of him.

I realize we are in agreement but I'll just point out that "professionalism" has nothing to do with it since it's the unions which control seniority.

 

["Luke"]

I did disagree with you (and Cactus73).



It would be very unprofessional to interview a pilot, offer him a job, put him into a pool for class and then put a thousand or so other pilots ahead of him.

What is the difference between "offering him a job", and being hired?

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Why not give a US Air guy relative seniority for the time they had active. If you were hired 12 years ago but have only 4 years active time, why can't they go in as a 4 years of seniority credit? What do you guys think of that?

Furloughed is Furloughed. They come back to the bottom if AAA would servive on its own. They come back to the bottom of the combined list.

 

[Reebo]

What is the difference between "offering him a job", and being hired?

not much, but seniority dosent start until class does.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Look, I'm all for giving the AAA furloughs first crack at any new jobs at the bottom of the newly combined seniorty list. I see nothing wrong with that.

But the harsh truth is that the AAA furloughs are not even a consideration in the merging of the two lists. Only the active pilots will be merged together. That's just the way it is.

We can't really say that we will "recall" them because they will not have recall rights at the new airline. It will be more acurate to say that we will give them first shot at any new jobs.

I can't say whether or not this is the "right" thing to do, but it is generous and I think that most AWA and AAA pilots would like to give the AAA furloughs the first shot.

 

[TWA Dude]

What is the difference between "offering him a job", and being hired?

In the airline business the difference is everything. Until you actually start class you're not on the payroll and hence not "hired". Being in a pool is a non-binding intent to hire. It's just the way it is. Heck, technically I'm still in the pool to be hired by ACA. Nobody told me otherwise but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Crzipilot]

Flyn-n-HI....

uhmmm..what are you smokin these days??? Are you AWA pilot or just trying to stir the pot some more???? (which pot I'm not sure, maybe put a crack into a few things)

Anyways.....the arbitrator will determine what is right and what is fair...pretty much guarnteed. Besides....what your spouting is fairly worse than what was discussed with one of the AWA Alpa guys (just a committee guy, not really anything to do with the merger, that I know of) BTW...watch out for flash burns ....hehehe