Awa Merger

[Boeing747Driver]

This from one of your own.... See what I mean?

PHXFLYR

Hey PHX I am an AWA F/O not one of them.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I know.


PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

Hey, Green -


How long have the gdmned newspapers been predicting the demise of US Airways?


Do you believe everything you read in USA Today? Everything the "analysists" say?

He!! yes US Airways will make it, with or without this merger. People were throwing money at it left and right long before the AWA merge was announced. Money talks, and Bronner and Lakefield know how to find LOTS of money.

As far as you saying: "Without trying to sound like a complete a##hole, you don't have any career expectations as a furloughed US Airways pilot.


Too late, man.....you already do. I know too many pilots who've survived furlough at other airlines to agree with what you and soooooo many AWA pilots keep saying here. Sure, it's the convenient thing to say when you think it might get you off reserve more quickly, or help boost that windfall-turbo-senoirity you're all salivating over. But, yes, it still makes you look like......well, you know, you said it yourself.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey, Green -


How long have the gdmned newspapers been predicting the demise of US Airways?


Do you believe everything you read in USA Today? Everything the "analysists" say?

He!! yes US Airways will make it, with or without this merger. People were throwing money at it left and right long before the AWA merge was announced. Money talks, and Bronner and Lakefield know how to find LOTS of money.

As far as you saying: "Without trying to sound like a complete a##hole, you don't have any career expectations as a furloughed US Airways pilot.


Too late, man.....you already do. I know too many pilots who've survived furlough at other airlines to agree with what you and soooooo many AWA pilots keep saying here. Sure, it's the convenient thing to say when you think it might get you off reserve more quickly, or help boost that windfall-turbo-senoirity you're all salivating over. But, yes, it still makes you look like......well, you know, you said it yourself.

Be Careful, let me help you out. You have indicated that I am angry and that I have been swinging for the fences since this thing was announced. You could not be more wrong!! I will tell you what does get under my skin. REGIONAL JET PILOTS such as yourself feeling that because you are furloughed from AAA that you are entitled to bump ANY ACTIVE MAIN LINE AWA PILOT to the street for your advancement!!!! Understand that I, TWA DUDE, PHX FLYR and others feel for you and most if not all of us would rather see that all hiring off the street stop until you furloughed pilots brought in FIRST but as new hires with longetivity for pay ONLY. Keep in mind my friend, AWA was hiring while you were flying for the wholly owned!!! We were running classes while AAA was furloughing and parking airframes!!! My guess is that as soon as the rhetoric regarding furloughes being entitled to anything stops you may find that we may be more inviteing...

WD.

 

[Green]

Becareful,

Again I think you are being ridiculously naieve to think that US Airways will survive on its own for the next 15-20 years in its present size/form. It's just not going to happen. We'll agree to disagree.

As for "turbo-seniority" that is not what I am looking for as a junior AWA employee. I am looking to "maintain or improve pre-merger career prospects." I believe that is right out of Alpa merger policy. For me that means a job and an upgrade in about 6-9 years. Now what were your pre-merger career expectations? Honestly?

For a furloughed Us Airways pilot to claim that his/her career expectations are higher than an active AWA pilot is absurd, regardless of what year you were hired. Find me a single knowledgable person who doesn't have an AAA seniority number that predicts a rosy future for Airways and I'll take back my statements.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Career expectations? Do you honestly believe that without a lifeline from AWA your airline would be in business in 5 years, let alone 15? Furloughs are a terrible thing and this is a dirty, unfair business but I don't think that you can sanely bring career expectations into this argument. Without trying to sound like a complete a##hole, you don't have any career expectations as a furloughed US Airways pilot. We should be fair but bringing hundreds of AAA pilots off the street to sit captain for an AWA fo is not fair, regardless of when US Airways hired you.

Green, my friend, you're reading way too much into what I said. I'm not advocating that furloughed USAirways pilots be brought in above junior AWA pilots. What I advocate in this merger is some serious fences that will protect your expectations and to protect the expectations of the junior and furloughed USAirways pilots. It is the only way to keep things fair. Somebody a lot smarter than me will have to sit down with the lists, look at ages, retirements, etc to come up with a fair and equiatable solution that best protects both pilot groups.

You say that you expect to be a Captain at AWA in 6 to 9 years. What would happen to that projection if AWA went bankrupt again ? It could easily happen. Post 9-11 AWA pilots were bailing for jetBlue left and right, what were their career expectations ? Why did they leave ? Right now AWA looks okay, not good, but okay. That could all change due to one of many factors.

Same thing at USAirways. It looks bad right now, but it could all change for the better. For what it's worth, even though I am furloughed, I woud expect to hold Captain there in 8 years maximum. So our career expectations at 8 years in the future are pretty similar. The difference is that my career expectations after that 8 years are a move up the list at around 300 to 400 numbers per year and retiring as the number 10 pilot or better in 2025.

On a combined list, I wouldn't expect to be placed in a position to hold you back from your expecation, but neither should you expect to placed on the list in a position to hold me back from mine. The only answer for that to happen is for fences to be erected around the different bases. I.E. you always hold your relative seniority and/or career expectation at your bases and I always hold mine at mine. If you choose to move east, then you have to come at date of hire. If I move west, I have to come at relative position.

The trouble with this scenario is when flying shifts from one base to another; base closure, new equipment types, etc. How to handle that would have to be spelled out in any agreement as well.


TP

 

[BeCareful!]

Find me a single knowledgable person who doesn't have an AAA seniority number that predicts a rosy future for Airways and I'll take back my statements.

Bruce Lakefield

 

[BeCareful!]

Be Careful, let me help you out.

No thanks.....I'll pass.

I will tell you what does get under my skin. REGIONAL JET PILOTS such as yourself feeling that because you are furloughed from AAA that you are entitled to bump ANY ACTIVE MAIN LINE AWA PILOT to the street for your advancement!!!!

WD, I guess you don't read the whole thread, or the person you have read it to you skipped something, but I have never, never, not even once, suggested that an active AWA pilot should see some street time.

Clear?

Am I gonna have to say it again?

Enjoy widebody school when it comes around.

Happy windfall to you and yours.

 

[BeCareful!]

Now what were your pre-merger career expectations? Honestly?

Recall in about five to six years, with rapid advancement after that due to retirements. Honestly.


Oh, but of course I read that we were going out of business a bunch of times in several newspapers, so I guess it's ok for you and your AWA brethren to say that my expectations were folly. We'll see what the arbitrator says.

 

[MCDU]

There is no such thing as career expectations. When Cactus was in bankruptcy, did they have career expectations? How about Continental? Again, there is no such thing as career expectations. Just look where United is now. No more 4 year upgrades there. People where leaving AMWEST daily to go to United etc, because every one thought AMWEST was going tits up a few years ago.

Marty