Awa Merger

[Cactus73]

Crzipilot,

As I said before, I'm not trying to start an argument here. My sincere hope is that Southwest comes in with a lot of cash, buys some gates, and lets AWA and USAir go their separate ways. If we each have enough to survive on our own, great.

I don't really know much about the A350. If you say its the same type, fine. I really don't care.

The retirement projections being tossed around by both our management and the guys on this board are a little optimistic. There are a lot of retirements at USAir but the majority are in the 5-10 year range not 2-3 year range. Furloughs are very likely to occur on both properties in the shorter term.

Parker was asked about the current furloughees at a town hall and he responded that he wouldn't allow a furlough employee to return to bump and active employee. He has to sign off on any seniority list.

You can say what you want about AWA's financial condition. It wasn't great but it wasn't dire. Both sides are going to bring investment banking firms and financial advisors to the arbitrator. Since we have no control over the decision of the arbitrator, let's let him/her decide.

If I were furloughed from AWA tomorrow because AWA was bankrupt, I wouldn't give up on my career expecations, but I would definitely consider them mostly gone. I would probably get out of aviation and do something else. If AWA then merged with another carrier, it would be nice to return, but I would have some great expectation.

The point here is that it doesn't matter what I think or you think for that matter. What happens to the furloughed pilots at both airlines is out of my/your control. I'm just giving my opinion that the furloughed pilots at Airways are stuck in a tough position. I have also been a little upset lately at both the statements made by USAir furloughed pilots both in person and on this board. Yes, your fellow pilot I met on the van fully expected me to go to the street to facilitate her return.

As for no AWA guys hitting the street, you are smoking too much of your own product if you think AWA guys aren't going to get furloughed in this deal.

 

[erjdude]

So where do you go on the seniority list? I'm not the arbitrator, but it is my opinion that furloughed pilots should be brought back on the bottom of the list as positions become available. I also think that if AWA needs pilots they should fill the slots with furloughed Airway's guys in seniority order instead of taking anyone from our pool or off the street.


Interesting concept here. Though talk of career expectations, Yes I'm furloughed at present time, BUT, as Airways has shown, it continues to limp along and survive, even though it's been rumored it's going Chp 7 for the past 5 yrs, or longer. With that said, expected recall date, with present fleet, prob. less than 5 years, more like 2 or less. Beyond that, I'm expected to spend last 10 yrs left seat of a widebody, retireing in the top 10 of the seniority list. With that being said, I should be brought back behind someone hired at AWA 3 months ago? Hmmmmm.......try again. Maybe take that concept, and as positions become open, the furloughees are brought back, with where they would be slotted with their seniority. Retains some sembelance of seniority and doesn't put any AWA people on the street.

crzipilot,

I have no reason to doubt your time line or career expectations at u if it did indeed stay in business on its own and you get recalled.


However answere this. Where would you be on the seniority list of active pilots on the first day you get recalled? I would be willing to bet a lot of money you would be on the bottom of the list!!!

I hope you are recalled and I hope you are given credit for years of service for pay, vacation etc. But simply by vertue of the fact you are furloughed means you are on the bottom of the list at u and you will remain at the bottom of the list. sorry.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well as I've been saying, not really arguing the point, just throwing ideas from both sides. I've just seen less ideas from the US side than the AWA side.
The retirements, well that's what we've been talking about is the 5-10 year range. As they aren't planning on putting the airline together until, 3 years down the road, which would prob. put it at the end of 2008/beginning of '09. Now the merger commitees must come up with a combined seniority list way before they are planning on putting the airlines together, one other interesting footnote is that the company can not use the combined seniority list, untill such time that a combined contract has been negotiated either. Which may delay the whole thing even more. So with those timelines, it looks like alot of U guys will be gone, and hence alot more room for the AWA to move up etc....be unaffected. What I really expect to see, is after Sept. as more U guys retire, and they need more pilots, there won't be recalls, but actually a transfer of flying over to the AWA side. I know they have said they won't pit the two groups against each other, but just the way it's been going on over here they are finding more and more ways to pare down the US list. They won't recall, and yet are short staffed. Some estimates by 3-400. Guys that are #2 in base on equipment are getting JA'd (or at least called for such) on a weekly daily basis. That shouldn't be happening......
And as I've said, it's going to goto arbritration and each side will be justly pissed off about something. Only one happy will be the #1 guy. #2 guy will be pissed 'cause he couldn't become #1.
As to statements, I agree, on another board there's a AWA EE (not sure if pilot or what) but he enjoys putting a big picture of a staple in the message threads, so ya both companies have their 10%ers.
As to the idea of SWA coming in and buying gates and letting us go seperate ways, naaaa...would rather see these two put together, albiet the seniority issue is going to be a snag for a bit across all work groups, and the combined entity run by someone that wants to run an airline. I think if done correctly the combined could be a force. A very big one. Now who in the Midwest has a decent size network we could gobble up?


As to ERJ, you made my point. I'm expected to be at the bottom of the U list and able to take advantage of the U retirements. Not share those retirements. So ya...I'd still be at the bottom, but there would be a much quicker upward mobility than what the AWA pilots are expecting out of their seniority list. I haven't seen the list but I suspect their list is quite a bit younger. I know there were alot of guys that got on with AWA during the mid/late 90's that bailed to go other places, etc etc.....and then after 9/11 they have repopulated their list with furloughees and such.....

Anyone know the projected retirements at AWA btw?

 

[Crzipilot]

Crzipilot,

As for no AWA guys hitting the street, you are smoking too much of your own product if you think AWA guys aren't going to get furloughed in this deal.

Ahh forgot the add, my product is very good, I learned from the best.....Flew S.America for about 9 years

 

[miles otoole]

Gonna be interesting if/when retirement moves up 3-5 years.

 

[Publishers]

It is the same mindset as " they took our flying". Well pilots do not have their flying either.

That said, revenue is not generated until the flight completes. Unearned revenue is what you have until then. If the flight never goes, then the revenue is returned as a no sale.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'm expected to be at the bottom of the U list and able to take advantage of the U retirements. Not share those retirements. So ya...I'd still be at the bottom, but there would be a much quicker upward mobility than what the AWA pilots are expecting out of their seniority list. I haven't seen the list but I suspect their list is quite a bit younger.

Very good point and very important part of the " career expectations " argument. As I said way towards the beginning of this thread, someone one at my age ( 40 ) and hire date ( Oct 89 ), even though furloughed now, would expect to be in the top 1% of the USAirways list upon retirement and have very good seniority their last five years ( i.e. widebody Captain ). That must be taken into account in any fair arbitration otherwise the younger AWA pilots get a huge windfall over the long term.


TP

( Widebody Captain at profitable intergalactic airline, so you can have my spot )

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Very good point and very important part of the " career expectations " argument. As I said way towards the beginning of this thread, someone one at my age ( 40 ) and hire date ( Oct 89 ), even though furloughed now, would expect to be in the top 1% of the USAirways list upon retirement and have very good seniority their last five years ( i.e. widebody Captain ). That must be taken into account in any fair arbitration otherwise the younger AWA pilots get a huge windfall over the long term.


TP

( Widebody Captain at profitable intergalactic airline, so you can have my spot )

AWA upgrade is 6 years now. Pre merger plans. Grow 5 to 10% a year.
Every AWA pilot on the list should be in the left seat in 6 years period. That is our career expectations. By the way I am also furloughed AAA and my career expectation is to never return to AAA due to liquidation. I do not expect to jump up on the post merger list being I have a number at both companys. Really I don't expect anything from the AAA MEC they didn't represent us when we were active and have totally written us off on furlough. My bet is the AAA MEC will write off the furloughed pilots to save the senior pilots. Sad but they have always been known to eat their young.

 

[Green]

typhoonpilot,

Career expectations? Do you honestly believe that without a lifeline from AWA your airline would be in business in 5 years, let alone 15? Furloughs are a terrible thing and this is a dirty, unfair business but I don't think that you can sanely bring career expectations into this argument. Without trying to sound like a complete a##hole, you don't have any career expectations as a furloughed US Airways pilot. We should be fair but bringing hundreds of AAA pilots off the street to sit captain for an AWA fo is not fair, regardless of when US Airways hired you.

 

[PHXFLYR]

321 Busdriver...see what I mean?

AWA upgrade is 6 years now. Pre merger plans. Grow 5 to 10% a year.
Every AWA pilot on the list should be in the left seat in 6 years period. That is our career expectations. By the way I am also furloughed AAA and my career expectation is to never return to AAA due to liquidation. I do not expect to jump up on the post merger list being I have a number at both companys. Really I don't expect anything from the AAA MEC they didn't represent us when we were active and have totally written us off on furlough. My bet is the AAA MEC will write off the furloughed pilots to save the senior pilots. Sad but they have always been known to eat their young.

This from one of your own.... See what I mean?

PHXFLYR