avoid airline career

[Murdoughnut]

We wouldn't have to worry about being well rounded if the only tasks we accomplished in a given day were screwing bolts on an assembly line, or pushing buttons, but fortunately there's a bit more to life than that. Folks who aren't well rounded never really realize it because that part of the world that a well rounded person sees is mostly closed to them. A person who hasn't read ancient philosophy says it's useless because they've never known how it might help them to understand the world around them. It's just like the folks who thought Columbus and the like were fools for trying to discover uncharted territories. Their understanding of the world was limited to what they could see as they stared out over the ocean, so it makes perfect sense why they would feel this way. Only those who have gone beyond this point really understood.

Everyone chooses their own path. My father is a truck driver with no college education, but is one of the most honorable men I know - college is by no means the only path to becoming well rounded, but it does help. But to deny yourself the opportunity simply because you feel you wouldn't benefit from it would be a shame.

Funny - I taught H/S world history for a year, and naturally the kids had no interest in learning about foreign cultures. Finally, on our lesson about India, I broke it to them. I told them that as much as they were certain that they'd all be professional athletes or doctors, the odds were much more likely that they'd be sitting across from someone from a culture such as this in twenty years - trying to get a job! An education is never wasted, no matter what the subject material is.

 

[VABB]

We wouldn't have to worry about being well rounded if the only tasks we accomplished in a given day were screwing bolts on an assembly line, or pushing buttons, but fortunately there's a bit more to life than that. Folks who aren't well rounded never really realize it because that part of the world that a well rounded person sees is mostly closed to them. A person who hasn't read ancient philosophy says it's useless because they've never known how it might help them to understand the world around them. It's just like the folks who thought Columbus and the like were fools for trying to discover uncharted territories. Their understanding of the world was limited to what they could see as they stared out over the ocean, so it makes perfect sense why they would feel this way. Only those who have gone beyond this point really understood.

Everyone chooses their own path. My father is a truck driver with no college education, but is one of the most honorable men I know - college is by no means the only path to becoming well rounded, but it does help. But to deny yourself the opportunity simply because you feel you wouldn't benefit from it would be a shame.

Funny - I taught H/S world history for a year, and naturally the kids had no interest in learning about foreign cultures. Finally, on our lesson about India, I broke it to them. I told them that as much as they were certain that they'd all be professional athletes or doctors, the odds were much more likely that they'd be sitting across from someone from a culture such as this in twenty years - trying to get a job! An education is never wasted, no matter what the subject material is.

I agree with your post. Just to clarify my earlier post so there isn't any confusion.

Is college good? yes, I won't deny the overall experience is good. However, if one is going to go to college they should make their primary goal one of learning a skill that will be economically valuable to them. The well-rounded part will come to them as part of the experience. What I do not recommend is that one go to college strictly to get well-rounded. I am a firm believer that there are many ways to become well-rounded in life, and college is only one of the ways to do it.

I love history, geography and learning about other cultures. I have learned a lot about all of them in my spare time by travelling, reading books, and from the television (History Channel).

 

[greg52083]

I agree with your post. Just to clarify my earlier post so there isn't any confusion.

Is college good? yes, I won't deny the overall experience is good. However, if one is going to go to college they should make their primary goal one of learning a skill that will be economically valuable to them. The well-rounded part will come to them as part of the experience. What I do not recommend is that one go to college strictly to get well-rounded. I am a firm believer that there are many ways to become well-rounded in life, and college is only one of the ways to do it.

I love history, geography and learning about other cultures. I have learned a lot about all of them in my spare time by travelling, reading books, and from the television (History Channel).

Perfect post!! Your my hero

 

[pilotyip]

Do I see a break in the only College can make you a real person? Do I hear you can be successful without a college degree? To succeed in a career you need advanced training and experience; college is only one of many ways to acquire those skills.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Do I see a break in the only College can make you a real person? Do I hear you can be successful without a college degree? To succeed in a career you need advanced training and experience; college is only one of many ways to acquire those skills.

Here's the thing - college degrees are being passed out like candy these days. Because of weak accredidation standards, and ultral liberal efforts to diversify higher education (this coming from a moderate liberal himself), the bar has been severely lowered, thus allowing just about anyone who can write their name the opportunity to earn a college degree. As such, many folks who should be receiving trade oriented training have college degrees. As a result, the likelihood that a college degree will be required for a technical position has increased over time - even if vocational training would better serve the position.

I spent four years working in higher education before I left for the private sector. The inherent value of a college degree has decreased steadily over time, yet the need for one is increasing. It's a world gone crazy.

 

[pilotyip]

Amen!

 

[gringo]

YIP, do I understand you correctly? Are you trying to say that you don't need a college degree because your heroes, the B-17 and B-24 pilots of WWII didn't need one? Are you trying to imply that today's job market is ANYWHERE EVEN CLOSE to where it was 60 years ago?

The more you post, the more amazed I am at what comes off of your keyboard. Do you need a college degree? No. Of course not. And if your career aspirations are to stay at the regionals or 3rd tier fly-by-night operators, then more power to you. But most people who start this career don't go in with starry eyes saying "Wow, I hope I retire from USAJet flying a Falcon!" What they say is "I want to go to SWA, Air Tran, Delta, United, etc etc". And for THAT, you ABSOLUTELY need a degree.

Don't get me wrong, USAJet or whoever isn't a bad gig- if I happened to live in the area, perhaps that's what I would be doing as well. Having done the international trips in a widebody jet (my "dream") I realized that I'd rather spend more time with my family than alone in some hotel in Europe 2 weeks out of every month, so United is no longer my goal. I'd rather fly some small corporate gig and be home every night. But if United was my goal, I'd need a degree. No if's, and's or but's about it. Period. Done.

The BEST time to get a degree is when you're SINGLE and YOUNG and have no OBLIGATIONS (i.e., kids, mortgage, etc etc) I can't tell you how many captains I flew with at my regional who were desperatley trying to finish their dergrees, so that they could move on to bigger and better. But the work schedule and married life made it very difficult.

I'm glad that you don't have a degree and are happy where you're at. But news flash- you're old. Times have changed. A lot. Nowadays, you MUST HAVE a degree, unless you intend to work for anyone but the majors. And I have yet to meet a 22 year old saying "Golly, I hope to retire out of Mountain Air Cargo or Empire or USAJet!"

By the way, I love your by-line. The one that basically says that even though you won't get anything that makes a good career a good career (pay, prestige, respect, time off, etc etc), and benefits are eroding daily, and we're getting paid 1980 wages, and managment keeps sticking it to us, it's "still a good career because you like doing it"? By your line of thought then, masturbation is the BEST career!

 

[yaya]

Here's the thing - college degrees are being passed out like candy these days. Because of weak accredidation standards, and ultral liberal efforts to diversify higher education (this coming from a moderate liberal himself), the bar has been severely lowered, thus allowing just about anyone who can write their name the opportunity to earn a college degree. As such, many folks who should be receiving trade oriented training have college degrees. As a result, the likelihood that a college degree will be required for a technical position has increased over time - even if vocational training would better serve the position.

I spent four years working in higher education before I left for the private sector. The inherent value of a college degree has decreased steadily over time, yet the need for one is increasing. It's a world gone crazy.

I worked in higher ed while earning my ratings. It is disgusting. We Americans spend our tax money inviting foreigners here to earn a PhD on scholarship.... Oh,,, btw, we also give them a teaching assistant program (which pays $30 grand) so they can qualify for full health benifits while popping out six children at $60 buck a head all the while living withing walking distance to campus in married student housing. After that, they return to whatever county they came from because over there, a PhD is required to get a decent job. Who came up with the idea that being diversified is prestigious?

 

[800Dog]

Riddle was great! I wouldn't choose a different path if it cost 2x as much. College was the best years of my life and I made friends for a life time, I kinnda feel bad for anyone who skipped college, you missed a great chance to grow as a person. The industry will be great again one day soon! True the first couple of years can be a little hard, but there are other ways to make money on the side, for example, I design A320 and E190 training videos and software on the side. You can web programming and you can even become real estate broker. Ive heard of pilots who are undertakers and even lawyers on the side. A friend who was a pilot decided to go into ATC and in his 2nd year makes over 60k and will soon make over 100k, but I could imagine looking at planes instead of being in em. I guess im a die hard, but I could never imagine doing anything else, I still have to pinch myself every day. C'mon everyone, lets be happy go lucky again, there are ppl out there who have it way worse then us. FLY SAFE!!

I feel bad for anyone who went to Riddle. Not a true college experience. More of a trade school without a lot of hot women and social activities. The real college experience takes place at UGA, UF, FSU, ASU, Auburn, Texas etc.

 

[RichardRambone]

YIP, do I understand you correctly? Are you trying to say that you don't need a college degree because your heroes, the B-17 and B-24 pilots of WWII didn't need one? Are you trying to imply that today's job market is ANYWHERE EVEN CLOSE to where it was 60 years ago?

The more you post, the more amazed I am at what comes off of your keyboard. Do you need a college degree? No. Of course not. And if your career aspirations are to stay at the regionals or 3rd tier fly-by-night operators, then more power to you. But most people who start this career don't go in with starry eyes saying "Wow, I hope I retire from USAJet flying a Falcon!" What they say is "I want to go to SWA, Air Tran, Delta, United, etc etc". And for THAT, you ABSOLUTELY need a degree.

Don't get me wrong, USAJet or whoever isn't a bad gig- if I happened to live in the area, perhaps that's what I would be doing as well. Having done the international trips in a widebody jet (my "dream") I realized that I'd rather spend more time with my family than alone in some hotel in Europe 2 weeks out of every month, so United is no longer my goal. I'd rather fly some small corporate gig and be home every night. But if United was my goal, I'd need a degree. No if's, and's or but's about it. Period. Done.

The BEST time to get a degree is when you're SINGLE and YOUNG and have no OBLIGATIONS (i.e., kids, mortgage, etc etc) I can't tell you how many captains I flew with at my regional who were desperatley trying to finish their dergrees, so that they could move on to bigger and better. But the work schedule and married life made it very difficult.

I'm glad that you don't have a degree and are happy where you're at. But news flash- you're old. Times have changed. A lot. Nowadays, you MUST HAVE a degree, unless you intend to work for anyone but the majors. And I have yet to meet a 22 year old saying "Golly, I hope to retire out of Mountain Air Cargo or Empire or USAJet!"

By the way, I love your by-line. The one that basically says that even though you won't get anything that makes a good career a good career (pay, prestige, respect, time off, etc etc), and benefits are eroding daily, and we're getting paid 1980 wages, and managment keeps sticking it to us, it's "still a good career because you like doing it"? By your line of thought then, masturbation is the BEST career!

AMEN! I'm glad someone put into words what I can't

 

[Murdoughnut]

I worked in higher ed while earning my ratings. It is disgusting. We Americans spend our tax money inviting foreigners here to earn a PhD on scholarship.... Oh,,, btw, we also give them a teaching assistant program (which pays $30 grand) so they can qualify for full health benifits while popping out six children at $60 buck a head all the while living withing walking distance to campus in married student housing. After that, they return to whatever county they came from because over there, a PhD is required to get a decent job. Who came up with the idea that being diversified is prestigious?

I agree - I was in a Ph.D. program until my funding was cut (Most of us made about $12k a year which was just barely enough to live off of - but we got free tuition so it was ok). Made me sick that my funding was cut, but those in my grad program who weren't from the U.S. (about half) were able to keep theirs. I always thought that the American people would be disgusted if they really new about it.

 

[pilotyip]

It has been posted even though I possess a BS and a MA, that I am anti-college degree. Nothing cold is further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. Air Inc advertises that 172 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now; I only see four that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the ‘College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 168 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$100K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.

 

[PunchTheClown]

Riddle was great! I wouldn't choose a different path if it cost 2x as much. College was the best years of my life and I made friends for a life time, I kinnda feel bad for anyone who skipped college, you missed a great chance to grow as a person. The industry will be great again one day soon! True the first couple of years can be a little hard, but there are other ways to make money on the side, for example, I design A320 and E190 training videos and software on the side. You can web programming and you can even become real estate broker. Ive heard of pilots who are undertakers and even lawyers on the side. A friend who was a pilot decided to go into ATC and in his 2nd year makes over 60k and will soon make over 100k, but I could imagine looking at planes instead of being in em. I guess im a die hard, but I could never imagine doing anything else, I still have to pinch myself every day. C'mon everyone, lets be happy go lucky again, there are ppl out there who have it way worse then us. FLY SAFE!!

I agree, lets all be happy about 14 hour days 4 days in a row, fatty unhealthy meals, low pay and being treated like pieces of trash. God I cant wait to go flying again. Yay.

oops, I almost forgot that night of reduced rest in between 2, 14 hour days.

 

[Murdoughnut]

If anything, go to college to get good sex out of your system before you get married. Seriously.

 

[Grinder10]

800Dog, I agree with you.. except for the part about good looking women and social activities at Riddle. I visited a friend at school in Daytona and there is no comparison to college life anywhere in the SEC. How many hot aviation girls have you seen?