avoid airline career

[800Dog]

800Dog, I agree with you.. except for the part about good looking women and social activities at Riddle. I visited a friend at school in Daytona and there is no comparison to college life anywhere in the SEC. How many hot aviation girls have you seen?

Exactly what I said. No hot girls nor the social activities large universities offer. There are plenty of great schools that offer aviation and women, parties, football etc.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Exactly what I said. No hot girls nor the social activities large universities offer. There are plenty of great schools that offer aviation and women, parties, football etc.

What are you talking about?

http://www.break.com/index/spicestagefall.html

 

[PCL_128]

What they say is "I want to go to SWA, Air Tran, Delta, United, etc etc". And for THAT, you ABSOLUTELY need a degree.

United and Delta, yes. AirTran and SWA, no. They don't care a bit about some college degree.

 

[gringo]

United and Delta, yes. AirTran and SWA, no. They don't care a bit about some college degree.

That might be what their website says, but do you honestly think that, all thing equal, a candidate without a degree would be chosen over a candidate with a degree?

Granted, it might happen, but your odds go way up if you have a diploma.

 

[414Flyer]

Exactly what I said. No hot girls nor the social activities large universities offer. There are plenty of great schools that offer aviation and women, parties, football etc.

Or better yet, skip the aviation programs, major in something else, and do the flying on the side at a local FBO.

 

[scooter mack]

Are you flying?

If you're stupid enough to take student loans or spend 100 g's for your ratings on top of a degree for this industry, then NO BITCHING ALLOWED! First year at Comair....18,000
2nd....22500
5th 35000

Heck of a return on invewstment huh!
Get a PhD.

Simple math says that if you only made that much at Comair than you weren't flying the aircraft.

1st year: $18,000 / $23.40 = 769 hrs / 12 months = 64 credit hrs per mo
2nd year: $22,500 / $37.18 = 605 hrs / 12 months = 50 credit hrs per mo
5th year: $35,000 / $40.73 = 859 hrs / 12 months = 72 credit hrs per mo

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are guaranteed 75 hrs per month unless you drop trips or go on leave or something like that. This assumes you never break guarantee and sit reserve as a CRJ50 FO under all these scenarios. Also, it does not include per diem or the ability to fly more if you choose. I'm not suggesting it is great pay, but you really discredit the argument when you post info that appears to be easily refuted.

 

[VABB]

Skip college and learn a trade. For example, become a plumber and charge someone $120.00 just to go over to their house and flush the toilet.

Disclaimer: I know, plumbers do work a lot harder than that. But, you do see my point.

 

[PCL_128]

That might be what their website says, but do you honestly think that, all thing equal, a candidate without a degree would be chosen over a candidate with a degree?

Granted, it might happen, but your odds go way up if you have a diploma.

I'm not talking about the websites, I'm talking about people I know that have actually gotten hired. AirTran and SWA hire lots of guys without degrees.

 

[Black Hawk]

Skip college and learn a trade. For example, become a plumber and charge someone $120.00 just to go over to their house and flush the toilet.

Disclaimer: I know, plumbers do work a lot harder than that. But, you do see my point.

The good thing about plumbing or contracting in conjunction with a pilot job is you can do it on your schedule. Good money.

 

[172driver]

By your line of thought then, masturbation is the BEST career!

Where do I apply?

 

[pilotyip]

172driver get ahold of yourself, you will go blind, it will ruin your career.

 

[Scrapdog]

YIP, do I understand you correctly? Are you trying to say that you don't need a college degree because your heroes, the B-17 and B-24 pilots of WWII didn't need one? Are you trying to imply that today's job market is ANYWHERE EVEN CLOSE to where it was 60 years ago?

The more you post, the more amazed I am at what comes off of your keyboard. Do you need a college degree? No. Of course not. And if your career aspirations are to stay at the regionals or 3rd tier fly-by-night operators, then more power to you. But most people who start this career don't go in with starry eyes saying "Wow, I hope I retire from USAJet flying a Falcon!" What they say is "I want to go to SWA, Air Tran, Delta, United, etc etc". And for THAT, you ABSOLUTELY need a degree.

Don't get me wrong, USAJet or whoever isn't a bad gig- if I happened to live in the area, perhaps that's what I would be doing as well. Having done the international trips in a widebody jet (my "dream") I realized that I'd rather spend more time with my family than alone in some hotel in Europe 2 weeks out of every month, so United is no longer my goal. I'd rather fly some small corporate gig and be home every night. But if United was my goal, I'd need a degree. No if's, and's or but's about it. Period. Done.

The BEST time to get a degree is when you're SINGLE and YOUNG and have no OBLIGATIONS (i.e., kids, mortgage, etc etc) I can't tell you how many captains I flew with at my regional who were desperatley trying to finish their dergrees, so that they could move on to bigger and better. But the work schedule and married life made it very difficult.

I'm glad that you don't have a degree and are happy where you're at. But news flash- you're old. Times have changed. A lot. Nowadays, you MUST HAVE a degree, unless you intend to work for anyone but the majors. And I have yet to meet a 22 year old saying "Golly, I hope to retire out of Mountain Air Cargo or Empire or USAJet!"

By the way, I love your by-line. The one that basically says that even though you won't get anything that makes a good career a good career (pay, prestige, respect, time off, etc etc), and benefits are eroding daily, and we're getting paid 1980 wages, and managment keeps sticking it to us, it's "still a good career because you like doing it"? By your line of thought then, masturbation is the BEST career!

Gringo - great post...you're right on the money. Yip, for some reason, is extremely against going to college. It's a trend item - I've seen him post pessimistic college remarks in a few other threads as well. He continues to miss my point completely. Forget going to college even just for aviation, go to college because that's the way you succeed in today's world, aviation or not. That is the simple truth!!! 60 years ago (as he referred to in his WWII comments) is doable without a college degree - in today's world there is no friggin way.

And yes - the AF Academy was painful while I was there, but I wouldn't change a single thing...it opened up a lot of doors for me and I've been fortunate enough to fly two different fighters in the AF, best career ever in my opinion.

 

[CX880]

Are you high? Do you know what the average income is for the U.S? And you're telling me pilots don't make enough? You've been spending too much time in Beverly Hills or something. Don't you have 80 hours a month to talk about this in the cockpit, you got to bring this pointless conversation into this forum? The fact is that now any monkey can be a pilot and especially for planes such as a CRJ or Erj that can even tell you when it's time to take a crap. Management is not stupid, why are they going to pay 200K so you can push a few buttons and monitor the ride? Who works to become rich? Ask any body with a porsche or a Jaguar and ask them how they got the ride.

 

[747flyboy]

If you're stupid enough to take student loans or spend 100 g's for your ratings on top of a degree for this industry, then NO BITCHING ALLOWED! First year at Comair....18,000
2nd....22500
5th 35000

Heck of a return on invewstment huh!
Get a PhD.

Gotta be pretty stupid in the first place to set your goal for Comair to begin with.

 

[pilotyip]

Thanks for all the "College" responses we have not had a good ole "College is a must" chat for years, whatever happened to Bobby, and G-200, and all the others whose dander was stood up by saying college is not necessary to be a pilot.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Ask any body with a porsche or a Jaguar and ask them how they got the ride.

And here's what you'd probably get:

50%: "I'm not sure, my husband pays for it - I use it to shop and go to the gym"

30%: "It's actually leased, and I can barely afford the payments. But damn I look good!"

10%: "I inherited a $@#! ton of money from my dead (insert relative here)."

5%: "Selling drugs."

5%: "Good old fashioned hard work!"

 

[~~~^~~~]

College is not necessary to be a pilot. Some airlines look for college degrees thinking it is a sign that the person is better at socialization, teamwork and has a broader perspective than the blue collar (union) mentality that airline managers (who have college degrees) look down on.

Isn't it ironic that that the airlines who work the hardest to avoid the "blue collar" mentaility have much worse labor relations than the airlines like SouthWest?

Whether or not a pilot should get a college degree is up to the individual.

The people I see going to really good aviation jobs the fastest (youngest) are folks who got their ratings first. Then got a regional job and began working on their college degree through night school, or distance learning. Almost all of those guys seem to be at a UPS, FedEx, SouthWest, quality major before age 27.

If a pilot has any interest and opportunity to get a college degree, they should. If the pilot has the opportunity to get a degree at Riddle or one of the other high priced schools, they should. Is Riddle a good school? Who cares? The fact is that schools like Riddle allow pilots to make solid connections to people who will help a buddy get hired.

Same thing goes with Harvard and airline management. It is my opinion that Harvard is a very bad school, with way too much emphasis on theoretical management with no practical application. But once you get a Harvard degree, Delta and United seem eager to pay you in excess of $150,000 a year to manage their airline as a consultant.

I think we can all agree that college degrees have nothing to do with the skills necessary to operate an airplane, but, if management's consultants think it is important for you to be educated far beyond your intelligence, then it becomes a de facto job requirement.

Oh and the typical millionaire does not drive Jaguars or Porshes (or spend big bucks on any rapidly depreciating asset)- the most popular vehicle purchased by millionaires is the Ford F150. If you want to be a millionaire simply spend less than you earn and make savings a priority. A great book is the "Millionare Next Door." Once you learn how the majority of millionaires became "rich" you learn it is attainable for you and your family.

 

[Black Hawk]

Oh and the typical millionaire does not drive Jaguars or Porshes (or spend big bucks on any rapidly depreciating asset)- the most popular vehicle purchased by millionaires is the Ford F150.

Sam Walton drove an F-150 when he was worth over a billion. If I remember right he personally flew a Cessna 414 to get around on business too. That's a lot more impressive than some time share salesman with a Jag and a Citation leveraged to the hilt.