Avantair Union

[gret]

Are you sure that mgmt got a raise?

 

[G4dude]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

 

[gunfyter]

I dont follow you here G4. CA's reaction to a union vote is to lose $40 million a year? The union hasn't even been in business really yet....

 

[brokeflyer]

Are you sure that mgmt got a raise?

yes, they always do.

.

 

[XTW]

I believe Avantair will now go out of business, just like Citation Air, and for the same reason.

Make no mistake, if CA does go out of business, it will have done so due to poor business decisions, not the fact that a union was voted in. I don't know anything about Avantair, but I suspect the same there.


X

 

[The Dude Abides]

. . . what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate.

Well then let's start the debate. You're way off . . . and that's beyond debate!

Congrats, Avantair dudes! Here's to happy, healthy bargaining :beer:

 

[OHGOON]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

Yes, being a voluntary slave is better than having self respect.

Gentlemen and or Ladies, if you have any questions as to why the race for the bottom is ever accelerating, I give you G4dude, you are management material through and through, no moral compass and motivated exclusively by personal benefit, however meager it may become...preferably by selling his own down the river.

I bet you sleep like a baby, never being bothered by a conscience...

 

[RCR5]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

You are right on the money G4dude. I am surprised you even bother to stick around and talk to this pro union clown show crowd in light of all the bad that has happened to the fractional industry due to them and their unions.

Pretty soon there will be no fractionals and they will have nothing to talk about here, this part of FI will go away, and they can all sit around and e-mail each other on how bad management was at their fractional....lol.

They are the true American idiots.

 

[gret]

yes, they always do.

.

Santo and president Stephen Wagman also took voluntary pay cuts of 15 percent and 6 percent, respectively, according to Avantair’s August 24 SEC filing, and agreed to forego 2012 bonuses, “in furtherance of their continued actions as part of the company’s ongoing efforts to reduce expenses.” Non-employee directors agreed to reduce their compensation by 40 percent. Avantair’s stock closed yesterday at 53 cents per share.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...nagement-takes-pay-cut-grants-stock-options-0

 

[G4dude]

Yes, being a voluntary slave is better than having self respect.

Gentlemen and or Ladies, if you have any questions as to why the race for the bottom is ever accelerating, I give you G4dude, you are management material through and through, no moral compass and motivated exclusively by personal benefit, however meager it may become...preferably by selling his own down the river.

I bet you sleep like a baby, never being bothered by a conscience...

Having a job, albeit imperfect, is much better than losing it in perilous economic times, it seems to me. I don't understand how anyone can think differently. I hate it when I hear pilots are losing their jobs, because I definitely know how it feels. How does anyone think I don't care about my fellow pilots? I don't agree with you, but I don't assume it is because you have nefarious motives. By the way, I am not management material. I would be miserable in management. I just want to fly with my friends and eat good food at Pappadeaux and Outback and the Cheesecake Factory.

 

[G4dude]

Make no mistake, if CA does go out of business, it will have done so due to poor business decisions, not the fact that a union was voted in. I don't know anything about Avantair, but I suspect the same there.


X

CA was in that financial state and still going. The union got voted in and immediately CA announced it would wind down its operations. Seems logical to assume one had everything to do with the other.

 

[Helmsalee]

Seems logical to you G. But then, you exist in a totally different dimension than the rest of us.

 

[gret]

Disclosure...In general, I'm not a fan of unions. They encouraged members to vote for Obama and take advantage of their members so that a few leaders can lead the good life. That story is for another day.

In CitationAir's case, it is extremely doubtful that a pilot's union was a factor in their demise. Textron and Cessna possess considerable experience dealing with organized labor and having a few rabble rousing pilots carping about how they feel mistreated isn't going to impact their mgmt process.

Cessna has been sucking wind for almost 5 years now. They replaced the CEO a year so ago and Textron took a look at the business units to determine if they made sense. CitationAir didn't fit in their plans and they chose to go in a different direction.

Did the union organizing efforts weigh in on their decision...maybe...but they had probably already decided and the union talks just confirmed to them that they were going in the right direction.

 

[CALRepublic]

It is obvious you enjoy debating G4, you come here, get beat up and keep coming back for more... You are tenacious my friend..

I agree with about 80% of what you said, I just don't have the energy and desire to come here and argue.

 

[Praetorian]

Disclosure...In general, I'm not a fan of unions. They encouraged members to vote for Obama and take advantage of their members so that a few leaders can lead the good life. That story is for another day.

In CitationAir's case, it is extremely doubtful that a pilot's union was a factor in their demise. Textron and Cessna possess considerable experience dealing with organized labor and having a few rabble rousing pilots carping about how they feel mistreated isn't going to impact their mgmt process.

Cessna has been sucking wind for almost 5 years now. They replaced the CEO a year so ago and Textron took a look at the business units to determine if they made sense. CitationAir didn't fit in their plans and they chose to go in a different direction.

Did the union organizing efforts weigh in on their decision...maybe...but they had probably already decided and the union talks just confirmed to them that they were going in the right direction.

Just wondering. How much does the union-busting firm pay you to spew your s**t on here? Do they adequately compensate you for the loss of your soul? Does it still hurt a little inside, or have you gotten over that?

 

[gret]

Just wondering. How much does the union-busting firm pay you to spew your s**t on here? Do they adequately compensate you for the loss of your soul? Does it still hurt a little inside, or have you gotten over that?

Do you practice your dribble in front of a mirror to see how silly you sound?

 

[Praetorian]

Do you practice your dribble in front of a mirror to see how silly you sound?

Did the horns start poking through yet? That's how you know your fully committed.

 

[OHGOON]

CA was in that financial state and still going. The union got voted in and immediately CA announced it would wind down its operations. Seems logical to assume one had everything to do with the other.

No it does not seem logical to anyone who has any real information about the situation.

The whole truth may never be known about why Cessna/Textron decided to do what they are doing now. Whatever it is, it can't be the Union because there is no CBA yet. The company can unilaterally do as they please during negotiations for a first CBA. CA's management is free to do whatever they want again because the status quo with its incumbent restrictions ended as soon as the elections were won by the Union. Since there is no contract of any kind yet, they can do what they want, when they want to do it.

The fact that you don't know that or if you do, you are obviously unable to figure out its meaning, exposes you as a hack. A dumber as a fence post hack.

Please just go on stuffing your fat face at Papadoux or wherever with your buddies and leave the grown up problems to those who actually know what is going on.

 

[G4dude]

No it does not seem logical to anyone who has any real information about the situation.

The whole truth may never be known about why Cessna/Textron decided to do what they are doing now. Whatever it is, it can't be the Union because there is no CBA yet. The company can unilaterally do as they please during negotiations for a first CBA. CA's management is free to do whatever they want again because the status quo with its incumbent restrictions ended as soon as the elections were won by the Union. Since there is no contract of any kind yet, they can do what they want, when they want to do it.

The fact that you don't know that or if you do, you are obviously unable to figure out its meaning, exposes you as a hack. A dumber as a fence post hack.

Please just go on stuffing your fat face at Papadoux or wherever with your buddies and leave the grown up problems to those who actually know what is going on.

Maybe I am wrong, but the timing of Citation Air's demise seems awfully suggestive. Thanks for the courteous tone, by the way. Do you actually think everyone who disagrees with you about unions has an ulterior motive? I guess that belief keeps you from actually thinking on your own, examining your own assumptions.

 

[G4dude]

It is obvious you enjoy debating G4, you come here, get beat up and keep coming back for more... You are tenacious my friend..

I agree with about 80% of what you said, I just don't have the energy and desire to come here and argue.

Yeah, well, my friend gutshotdraw and a few others are worth the effort. Actuallly, pretty much everybody here means well, they just get a little cranky sometimes. I have learned a lot here, even from my detractors. They are certainly knowledgeable, but their conclusions don't match mine. It is still fun to discuss things here.