Avantair Union

[NoJoy]

Looks like Avantair pilots will be represented by SMART (formerly UTU). :beer:

 

[Praetorian]

Looks like Avantair pilots will be represented by SMART (formerly UTU). :beer:

Congrats. What was the percentage on the certification election?

 

[crewfoodmonkey]

http://utu.org/2013/02/15/avantair-pilots-land-at-smart-transportation/

"Among the pilots who participated in the representation election, 80 percent voted in favor of SMART."

 

[SharkRider]

75% of eligible pilots voted, and of those, 80%voted yes

 

[gutshotdraw]

Good luck folks.

Questions for the gallery.

Is this the beginning of pattern bargaining in this sector of the industry?

Or does the lack of a union at the second largest player of the segment put a hole in the concept?

Discuss.

 

[SharkRider]

Gut,
I think that ultimately the Avantair Pilots are just tired of having the rug yanked out from under them every August, and want a modicum of say in their working conditions.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Understood Shark.

I'm just wondering if having another union shop in the fractional segment will change the bargaining dynamic at ALL union fractional shops that are negotiating now or will be soon. Or will the fact that Flex is still non-union be successfully* exploited by management in reducing expectations.

Operative word here is SUCCESSFULLY. We know they'll try.

 

[cheeeese]

Awesome news!!! The top dog brought this on. Funny how the guy who wants a union the least does so much in creating its existence. Hopefully, now he'll look in the mirror and blame himself for the problems he created. Although, there probably isn't a reflection. Congrats pilots! Hope you guys get a good contract and improve your QOL, and Avantair builds itself to be a permanent player.

 

[rajflyboy]

unions are established at company's who need a union

 

[SDCFI]

Good luck folks.

Questions for the gallery.

Is this the beginning of pattern bargaining in this sector of the industry?

Or does the lack of a union at the second largest player of the segment put a hole in the concept?

Discuss.

Well, since Flexjet is now the only non-union fractional among the major players I'd say the pattern has already formed!

Will it amount to a hill of beans of change? Unfortunately I don't think so. Look what happened to FO and CA esp. Having a union doesn't mean much when the parent company decides to get out of the fractional biz and cuts the company in half. Avantair is a low cost business model, there's no way they can afford a contract that comes close to what NJA has, and Flex isn't far behind NJA even without a contract. Haven't heard anything from Options in ages, but I don't see them getting an industry leading package based on their history. That pretty much leaves NJA and Flex, and seeing as how we're the two most expensive already I don't see how we could get any significant improvements without pricing ourselves out of the market completely. And don't forget all the fracs have to compete on some level with charter and XO. Even if we all had the same pay and benefits and cost about the same too many people would run to the charter companies who would be sig cheaper.

 

[Sparse]

Well, since Flexjet is now the only non-union fractional among the major players I'd say the pattern has already formed!

Will it amount to a hill of beans of change? Unfortunately I don't think so. Look what happened to FO and CA esp. Having a union doesn't mean much when the parent company decides to get out of the fractional biz and cuts the company in half. Avantair is a low cost business model, there's no way they can afford a contract that comes close to what NJA has, and Flex isn't far behind NJA even without a contract. Haven't heard anything from Options in ages, but I don't see them getting an industry leading package based on their history. That pretty much leaves NJA and Flex, and seeing as how we're the two most expensive already I don't see how we could get any significant improvements without pricing ourselves out of the market completely. And don't forget all the fracs have to compete on some level with charter and XO. Even if we all had the same pay and benefits and cost about the same too many people would run to the charter companies who would be sig cheaper.

If it depends on patterning bargaining I would say NJ has the most to lose. Flex, no contract, CA, out of business, Options, ( fill in the blanks) Avaintair, bottom feeder, xo ditto. The fractional model and career is dead.

 

[Capt. JD]

Congrats! Long over due...

http://utu.org/2013/02/15/avantair-pilots-land-at-smart-transportation

 

[Can8dn]

Congrats to the guys/gals at Avantair! When I was there schedule and pay didn't seem to be a problem. Work rules on the other hand needed a lot of work, I hope this contract gets you the work rules that will improve your QOL to what will make it a good job!

 

[G4dude]

Congrats to the guys/gals at Avantair! When I was there schedule and pay didn't seem to be a problem. Work rules on the other hand needed a lot of work, I hope this contract gets you the work rules that will improve your QOL to what will make it a good job!

I believe Avantair will now go out of business, just like Citation Air, and for the same reason. Now, while they are struggling, they have to deal with a union. This is good news for the other fractionals. There will be less competition.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I can think of several times a frac union has saved a company from itself

 

[Helmsalee]

G4, you are really out to lunch on this one. Really a stretch, even for you, to compare CA and Avantair. Only a rabid anti-union guy would see a similarity.
Helm

 

[gutshotdraw]

I believe Avantair will now go out of business, just like Citation Air, and for the same reason. Now, while they are struggling, they have to deal with a union. This is good news for the other fractionals. There will be less competition.

There you go causing trouble again amigo....

This site REALLY needs a facepalm emoticon.

 

[Praetorian]

I believe Avantair will now go out of business, just like Citation Air, and for the same reason. Now, while they are struggling, they have to deal with a union. This is good news for the other fractionals. There will be less competition.

Don't you have a picket line somewhere to cross?

 

[imacdog]

I think he's looking for the next box of sand to bury his head in.

 

[brokeflyer]

the company is doing bad, so all the pilots have to get screwed? they get a union because while the company is doing bad, management takes a raise.

You dont cut pay and benefits from employees that work hard. If you do, you get the union you deserve.

 

[gret]

Are you sure that mgmt got a raise?

 

[G4dude]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

 

[gunfyter]

I dont follow you here G4. CA's reaction to a union vote is to lose $40 million a year? The union hasn't even been in business really yet....

 

[brokeflyer]

Are you sure that mgmt got a raise?

yes, they always do.

.

 

[XTW]

I believe Avantair will now go out of business, just like Citation Air, and for the same reason.

Make no mistake, if CA does go out of business, it will have done so due to poor business decisions, not the fact that a union was voted in. I don't know anything about Avantair, but I suspect the same there.


X

 

[The Dude Abides]

. . . what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate.

Well then let's start the debate. You're way off . . . and that's beyond debate!

Congrats, Avantair dudes! Here's to happy, healthy bargaining :beer:

 

[OHGOON]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

Yes, being a voluntary slave is better than having self respect.

Gentlemen and or Ladies, if you have any questions as to why the race for the bottom is ever accelerating, I give you G4dude, you are management material through and through, no moral compass and motivated exclusively by personal benefit, however meager it may become...preferably by selling his own down the river.

I bet you sleep like a baby, never being bothered by a conscience...

 

[RCR5]

Sorry, I really didn't mean to make anyone mad, but what happened at Citation Air is so obviously a reaction to the union vote that it seems beyond debate. If Avantair "deserved" a union and got one voted in, and the company shuts down, then it doesn't really matter whether the company "deserved" the union, the pilots still lose their jobs because of it. I don't want pilots to lose their jobs. It happened to me a BUNCH of times. Moral victories are fine, unless they cost you your job, it seems to me.

You are right on the money G4dude. I am surprised you even bother to stick around and talk to this pro union clown show crowd in light of all the bad that has happened to the fractional industry due to them and their unions.

Pretty soon there will be no fractionals and they will have nothing to talk about here, this part of FI will go away, and they can all sit around and e-mail each other on how bad management was at their fractional....lol.

They are the true American idiots.

 

[gret]

yes, they always do.

.

Santo and president Stephen Wagman also took voluntary pay cuts of 15 percent and 6 percent, respectively, according to Avantair’s August 24 SEC filing, and agreed to forego 2012 bonuses, “in furtherance of their continued actions as part of the company’s ongoing efforts to reduce expenses.” Non-employee directors agreed to reduce their compensation by 40 percent. Avantair’s stock closed yesterday at 53 cents per share.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...nagement-takes-pay-cut-grants-stock-options-0

 

[G4dude]

Yes, being a voluntary slave is better than having self respect.

Gentlemen and or Ladies, if you have any questions as to why the race for the bottom is ever accelerating, I give you G4dude, you are management material through and through, no moral compass and motivated exclusively by personal benefit, however meager it may become...preferably by selling his own down the river.

I bet you sleep like a baby, never being bothered by a conscience...

Having a job, albeit imperfect, is much better than losing it in perilous economic times, it seems to me. I don't understand how anyone can think differently. I hate it when I hear pilots are losing their jobs, because I definitely know how it feels. How does anyone think I don't care about my fellow pilots? I don't agree with you, but I don't assume it is because you have nefarious motives. By the way, I am not management material. I would be miserable in management. I just want to fly with my friends and eat good food at Pappadeaux and Outback and the Cheesecake Factory.