avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[netjetwife]

Bug, some of us have offered the Avantair pilots encouragement and pointed out (to those who haven't yet realized it, though it's hard to see how they couldn't after the recent incident there...) the need for career protections a written contract would give them. Ultimately, the choice is theirs to make: a never-ending cycle of being used (sometimes abused) by management or standing up for themselves and demanded their due as professional pilots gone from home half the time working for the company.

It amazes me that a workforce who must constantly adhere to checklists would leave the outcome of their career investment to chance, relying on those who don't have your best interests at heart to make critical decisions that affect you and your family....

Best wishes to all frac pilots and their families,
Netjetwife

 

[B19 Flyer]

Bug, some of us have offered the Avantair pilots encouragement and pointed out (to those who haven't yet realized it, though it's hard to see how they couldn't after the recent incident there...) the need for career protections a written contract would give them. Ultimately, the choice is theirs to make: a never-ending cycle of being used (sometimes abused) by management or standing up for themselves and demanded their due as professional pilots gone from home half the time working for the company.

It amazes me that a workforce who must constantly adhere to checklists would leave the outcome of their career investment to chance, relying on those who don't have your best interests at heart to make critical decisions that affect you and your family....

Best wishes to all frac pilots and their families,
Netjetwife

NJW, let me guess... Your husband has never been laid off due to a union action, right? There have been thousands of pilots and represented employees that have been laid off over the recent years because the union that pledged to protect them squeezed the neck of the golden goose SO tight the goose either croaked or no longer could lay eggs fast enough to sustain them. Carriers have been out of bankruptcy for only a couple of months, and the unions are already looking for their "fair share".. sheesh...

The only "best interest" a union has us the dues that support them. If it was the employee, they would be a lot more amicable in their dealings and act BEFORE the carrier was struggling rather than forcing it into bankruptcy by not budging on an unreasonable contract for that space in time.

 

[dime line]

NJW, let me guess... Your husband has never been laid off due to a union action, right? There have been thousands of pilots and represented employees that have been laid off over the recent years because the union that pledged to protect them squeezed the neck of the golden goose SO tight the goose either croaked or no longer could lay eggs fast enough to sustain them. Carriers have been out of bankruptcy for only a couple of months, and the unions are already looking for their "fair share".. sheesh...

The only "best interest" a union has us the dues that support them. If it was the employee, they would be a lot more amicable in their dealings and act BEFORE the carrier was struggling rather than forcing it into bankruptcy by not budging on an unreasonable contract for that space in time.

They did you moron, case in point, look at American, and Don Carty. After the pilots gave concessions, good ol Don Carty gave 20 million to the top management people. In your wack brain how is that fair? So who had the "best interest" in mind there.

 

[pilotpat]

This B19 guy can't concede a thing. Case in point is page 11 where I commented about the same things with other carriers. Its bs he's peddling. That's all. Along with a "tainted" employment past with his "layoffs". The only argument he had was that I wasn't even born during the whole Continental fiasco...pitiful. Oh, and since I was born in the 60's, I'd say I was not only alive, but I'm also a history buff who reads even if I wasn't cognizant of the facts as they happened.

Their fair share was due to them (AA Pilots) B19. Concessions by pilots and then huge bonuses to high level management. You think that's fair?

 

[Noodles]

Please don't feed the troll known as B19 Flyer. He takes a little bit of knowledge, and then demonstrates he has no idea how to use it.

Furloughs at airlines are because of bad managment, not a union.

 

[RoughAir]

Noodles has it right.

In all my furloughs, I was never furloughed because of the union "thing", it was always the result of management decisions and their business plans.

 

[netjetwife]

My husband was furloughed from American after 9-11. They announced the decision so quickly that my husband strongly suspected that they were using the situation to reorganize and put more pilots into the Regionals where pay was much lower. When offered a job with Eagle my husband declined. I think he was right in his assessment of the situation.

What did the Union do for the pilots when AA was furloughing so many? Their research turned up the fact that management was scrambling to protect their income while laying off many employees and calling for concessions from those remaining... and they got stock options for the furloughed pilots.

"The union" is the workers themselves. Like any relationship, you get out of it what you put into it. Your success or failure is a direct reflection of your involvement. The previously apathetic NJA pilots are a good example of that. When they voted in new leadership and got their own Local there was a dramatic improvement in morale which led to a far better contract. They now have the best deal among frac pilots. Additionally, I can personally attest to the fact that they have very caring volunteers representing the pilots and working with the company to find fair solutions to problems and to make NJA a viable long-term career. Obviously, it is in everyone's interest to have a productive, financially strong company and motivated workers are definitely an inherent component in the list of requirements for meeting that goal. NJA is again a good example of that widely held viewpoint.

Have a good weekend everyone...
NJW

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

This B19 guy can't concede a thing. Case in point is page 11 where I commented about the same things with other carriers. Its bs he's peddling. That's all. Along with a "tainted" employment past with his "layoffs". The only argument he had was that I wasn't even born during the whole Continental fiasco...pitiful. Oh, and since I was born in the 60's, I'd say I was not only alive, but I'm also a history buff who reads even if I wasn't cognizant of the facts as they happened.

Their fair share was due to them (AA Pilots) B19. Concessions by pilots and then huge bonuses to high level management. You think that's fair?

You guys either don't know who B19 is or you're forgetting.

He is upper management at Avantair. He's determined not to have a union on the property. He was never a career pilot. He doesn't even like pilots. He's proven himself to be a pathological liar over and over and over again.

hope that helps

 

[Noodles]

I know who it is. It's just fun having a battle of wits with unarmed person!

 

[pilotpat]

Yeah...I guess I knew he was management from previous threads. He's still a dolt.

 

[Bruno06]

B-19 has been a little quiet on this thread lately. Probably because he's busy in his office covering up the latest Avantair tire incident at TEB. He'll be going to great lengths to ensure Avantair don't carry any responsibility and will no doubt be finger-pointing at the pilots again. I don't know many details about this incident and Avantair seem to be keeping it covered up as usual.
These recurring incidents again raise the need for a union. The fact that B19 and the rest of Avantair management are so against a union just proves there's reason to be concerned.

 

[Bruno06]

Found out this was a tower mistake, appears both aircraft were cleared for takeoff. Piaggio pilots aborted to avoid the other plane. Great job, good pilots at Avatair, shame about the management!

 

[fischman]

NJW, let me guess... Your husband has never been laid off due to a union action, right? There have been thousands of pilots and represented employees that have been laid off over the recent years because the union that pledged to protect them squeezed the neck of the golden goose SO tight the goose either croaked or no longer could lay eggs fast enough to sustain them. Carriers have been out of bankruptcy for only a couple of months, and the unions are already looking for their "fair share".. sheesh...

The only "best interest" a union has us the dues that support them. If it was the employee, they would be a lot more amicable in their dealings and act BEFORE the carrier was struggling rather than forcing it into bankruptcy by not budging on an unreasonable contract for that space in time.

You need therapy.

 

[B19 Flyer]

My husband was furloughed from American after 9-11. They announced the decision so quickly that my husband strongly suspected that they were using the situation to reorganize and put more pilots into the Regionals where pay was much lower. When offered a job with Eagle my husband declined. I think he was right in his assessment of the situation.

What did the Union do for the pilots when AA was furloughing so many? Their research turned up the fact that management was scrambling to protect their income while laying off many employees and calling for concessions from those remaining... and they got stock options for the furloughed pilots.

"The union" is the workers themselves. Like any relationship, you get out of it what you put into it. Your success or failure is a direct reflection of your involvement. The previously apathetic NJA pilots are a good example of that. When they voted in new leadership and got their own Local there was a dramatic improvement in morale which led to a far better contract. They now have the best deal among frac pilots. Additionally, I can personally attest to the fact that they have very caring volunteers representing the pilots and working with the company to find fair solutions to problems and to make NJA a viable long-term career. Obviously, it is in everyone's interest to have a productive, financially strong company and motivated workers are definitely an inherent component in the list of requirements for meeting that goal. NJA is again a good example of that widely held viewpoint.

Have a good weekend everyone...
NJW

OK, so what you are saying is that the union at NJ is better than the one at AA. Go figure. What makes you think that this can't happen at NJ? Why do you think that the union will protect you when it didn't before? The same exact managment that posted the large profits below were faulted for the large losses also. Unions loved the management when the profits were being posted didn't they? I wrote this in a different thread, but rather than repeat myself I'll just copy and paste it here. The industry was already in trouble before 9/11 and everybody was scrambling. I know, because I was working for one of the carriers that was scrambling before I got laid off when the company was on the brink. The writing was on the wall long before the events of 9/11. The carrier I was with was already parking airplanes and has stopped all pilot hiring long before 9/11. Thousands including myself was laid off during this downsizing. None of the unions involved below gave an inch until the carriers were either in or on the brink of bankruptcy (my golden goose theory) which caused the layoffs. How many more articles and links would you like? The second quarter wasn't any better.

Note the date of this news article:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstra...%20Association

5 of 6 Big U.S. Airlines Post First-Quarter Losses


*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information.
April 19, 2001, Thursday
By LAURENCE ZUCKERMAN (NYT); Business/Financial Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section C, Page 1, Column 2, 1128 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - UAL Corp, parent of United Airlines, reports operating loss of $305 million in first quarter compared with profit of $136 million in year-earlier quarter; United says it does not expect its proposed $4.3 billion purchase of US Airways to receive regulatory approval before July, raising doubts deal might be completed; US Airways reports loss of $171 million compared with loss of $218 million in first quarter of 2000; Delta Air Lines reports loss of $133 million in contrast to net income of $216 million year ago; National Mediation Board asks two sides in Comair pilots labor dispute to meet in Washington next week, which would be first talks since strike began on March 26; Comair is owned by Delta; AMR Corp, parent of American Airlines, reports loss of $43 million in contrast to profit of $89 million last year; Northwest Airlines reports loss of $123 million compared to loss of $42 million in same 2000 quarter

 

[B19 Flyer]

You need therapy.

I did that and it helped. The doc told me that I needed to take responsibilty for my own career. I started working for a non-carrier and now I'm all better.