avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[fischman]

I was going to let the Avantair guys continue their discussion on unions while just reading to be informed. Until now. It just got silly with the dino comment.

Can you tell me, B19...what useful purpose did dinosaurs once have on this earth? I'm more curious what you think dinosaurs did in their time that made them "useful". Or is that just a contrived way to attempt to bash the unions. 'Cuz its a pretty sucky one, if that's all you can come up with.

They made oil.

It is still useful.

Like unions.

And unlike B19.

 

[pilotpat]

LOL fischman...I was waiting for that response. But this knucklehead was eluding to them serving a purpose while on Earth saying they once served a purpose.

And yes...they serve quite a good purpose now!

 

[fischman]

LOL fischman...I was waiting for that response. But this knucklehead was eluding to them serving a purpose while on Earth saying they once served a purpose.

And yes...they serve quite a good purpose now!

I hear ya.

 

[netjetwife]

B19 would have the Avantair pilots think that a union isn't needed but their own experiences lately say otherwise. You should always be suspicious of one who tries to deny reality--they have a hidden agenda.

NJ pilots can attest to the fact that their union is alive and very necessary. The number of calls received by Stewards and the work done by the Union Training Committee are strong evidence of that real-life situation.

Naturally, B19 would rather discuss movies and dinosaurs... instead of actual examples of how a strong union can have a very positive impact on a pilot's career. Had that landing happened to a NJA crew, they, the union, and the company would all be involved in a methodical review of the situation. Rules would be followed and the union would be making sure that the pilots were treated fairly. I think B19 needs to have it spelled out for him.... In reality a union is all about...

Representation
Equality among pilots
A set of rules for both sides
Legal help as required
Income spelled out in advance
The chance to negotiate
Your much needed contract

 

[B19 Flyer]

I think B19 needs to have it spelled out for him.... In reality a union is all about...

Representation
Equality among pilots
A set of rules for both sides
Legal help as required
Income spelled out in advance
The chance to negotiate
Your much needed contract

I spell differently than you do:

Remember
Eastern
Air
Lines
In
The
Year 1991

 

[netjetwife]

More chaff. We are discussing frac pilots and 1108. It is only fair to judge each group by its own track record.

 

[pilotpat]

You may as well blame the mechanics and rampers B19. The pilots voted to sympathy strike with them because Lorenzo wanted to cut their (mech's and rampers) pay. HE was the one who dismantled the airline. HE was the one who screwed the airline and all its employees. Place blame where it should be and come up with something in this century or even this decade if you wanna debate.

 

[B19 Flyer]

More chaff. We are discussing frac pilots and 1108. It is only fair to judge each group by its own track record.

You are right. I left out that it was the Teamsters that represented both Eastern Air Lines AND Pan Am.

Sorry..

 

[B19 Flyer]

You may as well blame the mechanics and rampers B19. The pilots voted to sympathy strike with them because Lorenzo wanted to cut their (mech's and rampers) pay. HE was the one who dismantled the airline. HE was the one who screwed the airline and all its employees. Place blame where it should be and come up with something in this century or even this decade if you wanna debate.

Your total 2000 hours tells me that you weren't even alive when Lorenzo busted the union at Continental and saved how many jobs for Continental, Frontier and People's Express employees after consolidation? I was alive, and I know the downside. Two layoffs were enough for me to seek employment at a non-union carrier to secure my future against those that didn't care about anything but themselves.

 

[pilotpat]

Oh...now its Pan Am... Are you talking about the same Pan Am that terrorists loved so much? Blew up a couple planes and then the family members of Flight 103 decided to sue the company for $300 million? Is that the Pan Am you're talking about?? But I guess the Union was to blame for that one.

By the way...read the "+" at the end of the f'ng number. I'm a lot older than you might think, sir. And that's a mighty big chip on your shoulder if you're judging people by the number of flight hours they have. Tells me a lot about your character. That'd be akin to me saying you're not much of a pilot as my profile shows 2 jet types and you have none. It means nothing.

 

[fs77]

People's Express went TU anyway; indicates to me the real issues weren't fundamentally union related anyway.

 

[B19 Flyer]

People's Express went TU anyway; indicates to me the real issues weren't fundamentally union related anyway.

You are right. It was absorbed into CAL with Frontier which ultimately became what it is today. But without the intervention by Lorenzo, they all would have been gone and thousands more jobs would have been lost.

 

[angryoneincher]

Two layoffs were enough for me to seek employment at a non-union carrier to secure my future against those that didn't care about anything but themselves.

Why do you keep acting as if you are a career pilot? News flash, EVERYONE KNOWS WHO YOU ARE. If you want to salvage any credibility you have left ( that's right, you never had any) at least join the debate as who you are, since it's already a known fact. But to act like you've flown for all these companies...... silly. But what would one expect from your type? And how do keep track of all the lies you tell on a daily basis? Must be a full time job.

 

[glasspilot]

...........................

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

So, the word is the crew that had the gear fail on them in FLL was asked to resign or be fired. Maybe their fault, maybe not. Maybe it's justified, maybe not. Given this a/c's history and the crew's insistence of a normal landing (backed by CVR?), I'd guess not. I understand pressure to "admit" error was applied as well, to no avail.

Yea, I know, I don't like unions either. But with proper representation, mngmt can't easily make you the scapegoat as they did in this case, it appears. The ink wasn't even dry before we started hearing all the silly rules, etc.

Firing the monkeys always looks better to the shareholders.

We boys and girls may need this: http://org.teamster.org/faqs.htm

This thread got off track and went quiet in a hurry!