avantair.......union? Is it time.....again?

[Bruno06]

Insightful and well articulated. I too back this young company 100% and would like to see it grow, be strong and flourish.

It's sad to see every flightinfo post turn into a monument to childishness and naked emotion. I cringe at each new insult thrown and angry taunt so casually spoken. I wonder what effect each vomitous comment will have on the lifestyle of my family. My kids. This company.

Why are these people so negative? Have they ever had to work, I mean really work, for something in life?

I think it's time for the positive people to have a voice.

This has to be the most patronizing post I have seen. So pilots who have complaints or concerns with Avantair haven't had to work hard to get where they are?
Avantair was a good place to work, maybe 2 years ago, management seemed to genuinely care about it's employees, however as new management have joined the company there have been many changes. Money, profit and cut backs seem to be their only concern.
The purpose of flightinfo is for everyone to voice their opinions, whether they be positive or negative, to provoke discussions and respond to annoying posts like yours.
Maybe you shouldn't read flightinfo if it upsets you so much. What makes me cringe is when I see pilots treated unfairly and hear management justify it......there's nothing casual about that!
I'm sure all Avantair's pilots are concerned about their families and lifestyles since they see how management have responded to certain situations. I don't know how a "vomitus comment" can effect your family. Would you prefer this thread turn into a mutual admiration society and keep up the "insightful and well articulated" pats on the back comments?

 

[netjetwife]

While I am appalled at the latest turn of events at Avantair, I am not surprised that it has come to this. Working without a contract is risky and leaves the pilots in such a vulnerable situation that it can invite management to take advantage of them. In essence, a contract is really just a set of rules that both sides follow to keep things fair. While those spouting FUD would like Avantair pilots to think of unions as greedy and heartless the truth is that "the union" is actually the workforce given legal standing (read clout)to hold management to the agreed upon rules should they forget/overlook them. Apparently Avantair management would like to operate without such restrictions (one must note the latest example of that ) and will discourage the pilots from listening to anyone but them...

A few years ago NJA pilots complained openly because pay was so bad, but that wasn't their only complaint. Morale was also low because they were treated with a lack of respect and there wasn't enough fair work rules. That should sound familiar to the Avantair pilots. The greatly improved situation at NJA today shows what a huge difference a fair contract can make. In spite of the fear-inducing posts (whose motivation is easy to see) the reality is that most pilots in the frac industry choose to work under a written contract that offers them job security and a voice in their career.

I strongly encourage the Avantair pilots to ignore the doom and gloom from the anti-union posters here and analyze the situation objectively. To help you balance the FUD with accurate information I want to let you know that 1108 and NJA management are getting better all the time at working together to find fair solutions to problems and ways to improve the company for all involved. (I have a "front row seat" because of my husband's union involvement.) It’s easy to see that much more can be accomplished when both sides meet in the middle. Effective managers are willing to do that instead of blaming problems on the pilots and balancing the budget on the backs of their workforce. A written contract just makes sure they do their job while paying you fairly and treating you right as you do yours. From the sounds of it, that is something badly needed at Avantair--again, sad but not surprising. Good luck on your efforts to improve your working conditions. NJW


WRITTEN CONTRACTS ARE COMMONPLACE FOR MANAGEMENT AND PROFESSIONAL PILOTS DESERVE THE SAME

 

[fischman]

www.ibt1108.org

We are the only group that truly cares about you and your family. Management, FAA, NTSB will look for blame when the sh$t hits the fan. Where are they going to look?

Knock on wood, but if I ever have an incident my first call with be to NetJets to let them know what has happened (as required). I'll tell them there was an incident and I will divulge nothing more without my union representation. Then I will call the union. They are the only ones who have MY interests at heart.

I don't buy the crap that unions will bankrupt a company. Management knows what they are getting in to when they sign a contract. If not, they are incompetent and should not be in management anyway.

I don't buy the crap that unions only care about the top 2/3 of the seniority list. Why does the union come to talk to the new-hires? Why is there a new-hire mentor program?

I don't buy the crap that the union is only in business to collect dues. Those dues are there to protect me through legal fees, administrative costs, etc. and is worth EVERY nickel I spend on it.

Don't get me wrong. I love working for NetJets. It is an exciting time to be here with all the growth. The flying is 1/5 as stressful as working for a 121 carrier. But IBT 1108 has done more for my family than any other group in my life and I am truly thankful for all of the volunteers and members.

 

[fs77]

NJW and fischman, well said!

 

[B19 Flyer]

We are the only group that truly cares about you and your family. Management, FAA, NTSB will look for blame when the sh$t hits the fan. Where are they going to look?

Knock on wood, but if I ever have an incident my first call with be to NetJets to let them know what has happened (as required). I'll tell them there was an incident and I will divulge nothing more without my union representation. Then I will call the union. They are the only ones who have MY interests at heart.

I don't buy the crap that unions will bankrupt a company. Management knows what they are getting in to when they sign a contract. If not, they are incompetent and should not be in management anyway.

I don't buy the crap that unions only care about the top 2/3 of the seniority list. Why does the union come to talk to the new-hires? Why is there a new-hire mentor program?

I don't buy the crap that the union is only in business to collect dues. Those dues are there to protect me through legal fees, administrative costs, etc. and is worth EVERY nickel I spend on it.

Don't get me wrong. I love working for NetJets. It is an exciting time to be here with all the growth. The flying is 1/5 as stressful as working for a 121 carrier. But IBT 1108 has done more for my family than any other group in my life and I am truly thankful for all of the volunteers and members.

Dr. Ian Malcolm (The Lost World: Jurassic Park): Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

 

[imacdog]

Got FUD?

 

[BSlapped]

From AINOnline

Preliminary Report: Tire suspect in Piaggio landing mishap


By Mary F. Silitch
May 01, 2007
Accidents



Piaggio Avanti, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., March 20, 2007–The Avanti, operated by fractional operator Avantair, was substantially damaged when landing at Hollywood International Airport, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The ATP-rated first officer was flying the airplane, on approach to Runway 9R, at 120 knots.

On landing, the Avanti veered left and the first officer applied right rudder, then right brakes. The airplane veered right and the left main landing gear collapsed. The left main tire had separated, and fuel was leaking from the airplane. The tire had been deflated and there was a bald spot in the tread. The two occupants were not injured. The airplane, N128SL, is registered to Avantair of Bedford, Mass.






No mention of pilot error? Discuss....

 

[Bruno06]

Dr. Ian Malcolm (The Lost World: Jurassic Park): Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

Typical management response. No valid argument, just a quote from a fantasy/fiction movie. Pitiful to make such a frivolous comment on a subject as important as this, dealing with pilot's careers and job security. Something that affects their families, their lives, their future.
You should be ashamed, sitting there behind your desk in your St Pete office. Every time you make a comment in this thread it reinforces the need for Avantair pilots to have a union. Keep it up...you're really pissing everyone off!!

 

[netjetwife]

My thanks to Fs77 for the compliment and to BSlapped for sharing news. It baffles me as to why a workforce would choose a knee-jerk reaction management style over negotiated rules both sides must follow.

Just look at B19... ...so full of FUD you want to say "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"...or post, as it is. He offers the pilots fiction and stretched to the max ridiculous suggestions. I think Avantair pilots would be far better served reading Confessions of a Union Buster by a real one who finally couldn't stomach what he was doing any longer. They would easily recognize tactics like those used by B19. Far too often the road to a written contract is littered with broken promises and injured careers.

Now some of you may think that I'm being a bit over-dramatic (B19 holds that top spot), but I suggest that there are two pilots (if not more) from Avantair that would say they feel as though they had been chewed up and spit out by management there. Actually, there are probably quite a few frac pilots that feel that way, unfortunately. It makes perfect sense that the pilotgroup would want to protect their careers; to state the obvious, aviators need the assurance of a written contract more than most workers. Without it the Avantair pilots are left to wonder who will be next. NJW

PS To Flts Ops pilots--this is the reason you banded together to stand up for your right to fair treatment. Good luck at the bargaining table.

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

lllll

Dr. Ian Malcolm (The Lost World: Jurassic Park): Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts. Then later there's running and screaming.

Guys, dont be fooled by this weird reference to a science fiction movie. It's a typical lawyer move- a redirect.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, Mr. P! After all it's hard to argue with reality...

 

[CherryBomb]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a lot of people were hired within the last year. It is my understanding that we have a one year training contract. How can so many people be quitting with this training contract in place???

 

[Noodles]

They have only held one person to that training contract. Ever. I don't know how enforceable it is, but if they come after you, offer to pay $1/month, forever. They'll be out of business long before you would have to pay it off.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Exactly, Mr. P! After all it's hard to argue with reality...

Art imitating life. I felt the quote was perfect. Dinosaurs once had a useful purpose on this earth, just like unions. THAT's reality.

 

[pilotpat]

I was going to let the Avantair guys continue their discussion on unions while just reading to be informed. Until now. It just got silly with the dino comment.

Can you tell me, B19...what useful purpose did dinosaurs once have on this earth? I'm more curious what you think dinosaurs did in their time that made them "useful". Or is that just a contrived way to attempt to bash the unions. 'Cuz its a pretty sucky one, if that's all you can come up with.