Avantair pay cut vacay elimination

[bluepost]

I have nothing constructive to add other than I wish you guys the best of luck. I always liked the scrapiness of your operation. All the best, hopefully this is just a bump in the road.

 

[G4dude]

So your just a hypocrite.

How"s that?

 

[CE750Driver]

Humiliation? I am proud to work "at will." And I expect my employer to employ me "at will." If I don't like them I can leave "at will." If my employer doesn't like me, they can fire me "at will." Sounds like a fair exchange to me. I work for whomever I want and they employ whomever they want.
Union organizing during a perilous time for a company, especially during a protracted flat economy, doesn't take "stones" but rather "cluelessness", it seems to me. Sounds like a good way to lose one's job.

You claim to work for NJA. But say this above.

If you do work for NJA, they cannot fire you at will. You do not work, at will. You are protected by a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Just because you do not agree with it, does not make you "at will".
Dumbazz.

You are a Hypocrite.

 

[x402]

You claim to work for NJA. But say this above.

If you do work for NJA, they cannot fire you at will. You do not work, at will. You are protected by a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Just because you do not agree with it, does not make you "at will".
Dumbazz.

You are a Hypocrite.

He does, but he'd rather still be in Savannah.

 

[Capt. JD]

AftCG

You are drunk from their Koolaid.

From their balance sheet avantair will never show a positive net worth until they go chap 11 and then eliminate their debt in the bankruptcy process.

Avantair Koolaid is like Moonshine, it's some strong $hit!

 

[AftCG182]

Avantair Koolaid is like Moonshine, it's some strong $hit!

You know what? Because of Avantair-

-I am able to be a better provider for my daughter
-I can actually pay all of my bills
-I have learned that not all Management are self-serving pr1cks
-I know what it's like to have fun AND earn a paycheck

We're going through yet another period of change. Been through a few since I've been here. We'll be fine, just like always.

I'm done talking about this on a public forum. Please feel free to resume transforming this into yet ANOTHER Netjets thread...

 

[Skippy]

Always be wary when a company offers sock and a future vesting period when they are in a bad fianancial crisi. Its usually bad news amd they are just trying to stop attrition. How avantair still functions daily is beyond me. Their training should go thru the roof. They should have at least 1-3 daily resignations.
Its pathetic what they are doing to u.

 

[Praetorian]

Pollyanna

You know what? Because of Avantair-

-I am able to be a better provider for my daughter
-I can actually pay all of my bills
-I have learned that not all Management are self-serving pr1cks
-I know what it's like to have fun AND earn a paycheck

We're going through yet another period of change. Been through a few since I've been here. We'll be fine, just like always.

I'm done talking about this on a public forum. Please feel free to resume transforming this into yet ANOTHER Netjets thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJQSQA2bwgU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[G4dude]

You claim to work for NJA. But say this above.

If you do work for NJA, they cannot fire you at will. You do not work, at will. You are protected by a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Just because you do not agree with it, does not make you "at will".
Dumbazz.

You are a Hypocrite.

You really must stop drinking and posting. I said I PREFER "at will" employment. I was forced to join the union because I wanted to stay at NetJets, and I am still happy here, but I wish it was like before, an "at will" relationship. NJI was run better, was more profitable, more flexible in rearranging schedules, and more personal in how the company related to the employees.

 

[CALRepublic]

NJI was run better, was more profitable, more flexible in rearranging schedules, and more personal in how the company related to the employees.

NJI people always say that "NJI was profitable before the merger" what a bunch of BS.

there is no way in hell you guys (NJI pilots) know that for sure. I'd love to see an official document that states NJI was indeed profitable before the merger. I doubt NJI could have survived without netjets.

As for being a better job, yes NJI was a hell of a lot better job than netjets. And it was because it was still mom & pop. Now its part of the circus

 

[nordo_2]

You really must stop drinking and posting. I said I PREFER "at will" employment. I was forced to join the union because I wanted to stay at NetJets, and I am still happy here, but I wish it was like before, an "at will" relationship. NJI was run better, was more profitable, more flexible in rearranging schedules, and more personal in how the company related to the employees.

That’s quite a statement. Lets see the financials. Back that statement up with something more than “I think it was”.

 

[Capt. JD]

Always be wary when a company offers sock and a future vesting period when they are in a bad fianancial crisi. Its usually bad news amd they are just trying to stop attrition. How avantair still functions daily is beyond me. Their training should go thru the roof. They should have at least 1-3 daily resignations.
Its pathetic what they are doing to u.

Aviation is the last thing I would buy stocks in! Avantair has always had a training contract for a reason...

 

[HA25]

so the boss takes a 13% cut....which is nothing to a $525,000 yr salary. but makes a 8 yr PIC take 20% cut from 98,000? idiots

Sounds like you need a union over there.

+1

the problem is most of the guys there will probably never admit that.

 

[G4dude]

+1

the problem is most of the guys there will probably never admit that.

Do y'all really want to unionize a company in financial difficulties? How will that improve the company's health? How will that help the company provide more jobs?

 

[brokeflyer]

Do y'all really want to unionize a company in financial difficulties? How will that improve the company's health? How will that help the company provide more jobs?

It'll send a good message to all the other criminal ceo's to stop ripping off the employees.

Someone is stealing a lotta money from that place.

 

[dime line]

Do y'all really want to unionize a company in financial difficulties? How will that improve the company's health? How will that help the company provide more jobs?

Oh, but how can they be in trouble, management is in charge, and with no union. But thankfully the CEO took a "painfull" pay cut!

 

[HA25]

Do y'all really want to unionize a company in financial difficulties? How will that improve the company's health? How will that help the company provide more jobs?

I want to unionize EVERY pilot... period. If it were up to me, we'd have a professional guild and nobody would be able to work without a card... we'd get rid of ALPA, and all the other separate union groups and all fall under one group. Then we'd have true power to set wages, work conditions and safety policies across the board evenly and take the labor portion out of the competitive equation. Much like the trade unions of days gone by.

Unions have on many occasions saved their air carrier from idiotic management.. After all, we usually have a lot more vested in our employment than the revolving door CEO's..

 

[brokeflyer]

we usually have a lot more vested in our employment than the revolving door CEO's..

Good one.

 

[fugazi]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Plane_veers_off_runway_at_Teterboro_Airport.html?mobile=1&ic=1

I hear it was the same aircraft that lost the elevator.

 

[nordo_2]

Do y'all really want to unionize a company in financial difficulties? How will that improve the company's health? How will that help the company provide more jobs?

And not having a union, you’re holly grail has done wonders.

 

[jonjuan]

Stock down another 24% today after financials from past years have to be restated. market cap is at $8 Mil. ouch.......

 

[G4dude]

I want to unionize EVERY pilot... period. If it were up to me, we'd have a professional guild and nobody would be able to work without a card... we'd get rid of ALPA, and all the other separate union groups and all fall under one group. Then we'd have true power to set wages, work conditions and safety policies across the board evenly and take the labor portion out of the competitive equation. Much like the trade unions of days gone by.

Unions have on many occasions saved their air carrier from idiotic management.. After all, we usually have a lot more vested in our employment than the revolving door CEO's..

Let's posit this: your national union has been successful in pushing salaries and working conditions to a high level. How would you deal with all the pilots who want a job and are willing to work for less?

 

[G4dude]

I want to unionize EVERY pilot... period. If it were up to me, we'd have a professional guild and nobody would be able to work without a card... we'd get rid of ALPA, and all the other separate union groups and all fall under one group. Then we'd have true power to set wages, work conditions and safety policies across the board evenly and take the labor portion out of the competitive equation. Much like the trade unions of days gone by.

Unions have on many occasions saved their air carrier from idiotic management.. After all, we usually have a lot more vested in our employment than the revolving door CEO's..

And because your union has been successful in driving up pay and benefits, there will be an increase in supply of pilots as more are attracted to the industry, resulting in more unemployed pilots trying to get those higher paying jobs. How will this union fight off this oversupply of pilots caused by the union's successful activities? And then, because the cost of staffing pilots has gone up, companies will gradually decrease the numbers employed as consumers react to the increased cost of air travel by flying less, further increasing the supply of unemployed pilots. Therefore, the union has caused an oversupply of pilots and a decrease of pilot jobs, by creating a non-free market upward coercive force helping pilots make more money. Oops! The Law of Unintended Consequences has struck again!

 

[G4dude]

I want to unionize EVERY pilot... period. If it were up to me, we'd have a professional guild and nobody would be able to work without a card... we'd get rid of ALPA, and all the other separate union groups and all fall under one group. Then we'd have true power to set wages, work conditions and safety policies across the board evenly and take the labor portion out of the competitive equation. Much like the trade unions of days gone by.

Unions have on many occasions saved their air carrier from idiotic management.. After all, we usually have a lot more vested in our employment than the revolving door CEO's..

What I DO like about your National Union idea is it has good intentions, and you obviously thought about it a lot. Kudos for that. I am enjoying this conversation, and you have not called me a lying scumsucking scoundrel and made observations about my urinating habits, for which I commend you!

 

[gunfyter]

G4,

That's how it works ... only if the Union succeeds in driving compensation to a point higher than the value of the Pilot Productivity. Good luck with that... we got a long way to go....

 

[brokeflyer]

how many times will you fly on a plane compared to how many times you'll have open heart surgery.

Flying should be very expensive for sure.

 

[Jack Campbell]

Let's posit this: your national union has been successful in pushing salaries and working conditions to a high level. How would you deal with all the pilots who want a job and are willing to work for less?

G4dude, you have some good ideas about business that I agree with, but on this I disagree. Pilots need unions to provide a balance in the management/labor relationship. If there is not enough balance, the stronger side will abuse the weaker side. Unions provide some balance in that relationship and are therefore required. History has proven this many times and its not just about income. With this comes responsibility that no one side should abuse their position, but I don't want to get into a long conversation about that on the forum.

To answer your question, there will always be pilots who want to work for less. I haven't taken a poll but I would say these are the less qualified (or un-qualified for various reasons) pilots.

Why aren't more people complaining about how high management's salaries are?

 

[gret]

You know, it is very sad and almost brings me to tears hearing off the cuff comments about CEO pay and incompetence on these boards. Does anyone have any facts about how much the CEO of any of the fractional companies make, except for the one mentioned in this thread?

The burdens of being in mgmt are never ending. There isn’t so many days on and so many days off. They take their work home with them 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They have to worry about all the employees and have to spend a lot of time with a small group of ding dongs that are unemployable outside the aviation industry.

If you think you can do a better job, get into mgmt.

Most executives in aviation are drastically underpaid compared to their counterparts in other industries and that is why we can’ attract talent that may make a difference.

For Christ’s sake, a lousy $500K a year is nothing. You can’t even afford a Bentley on this minimum wage.

People should start thanking their lucky stars for having anybody to work in these positions at all. Keep in mind mgmt is selected by the real stakeholders in the company, the shareholders.

 

[Jack Campbell]

.....

 

[imacdog]

The burdens of being in mgmt are never ending. There isn’t so many days on and so many days off. They take their work home with them 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They have to worry about all the employees and have to spend a lot of time with a small group of ding dongs that are unemployable outside the aviation industry.

....and some even have to balance all of that with insider trading deals. It can be rough!