Avantair pay cut vacay elimination

[CE750Driver]

and you point was...?

Good robust debate is great...but what does this add to the discussion?

First, he claims that he said he "preferred" to work at will, when he actually, said proud. Now, he then claimed he wasn't a hypocrite because he said "preferred", which was proven wrong. Then, he implies that I was posting and drinking. Plus, he is just a hypocritical ass, who doesn't pay attention to what he is writing I guess.

Read the thread, if you cant see the point, I cant help you.

 

[illinipilot]

Not that I'm suprised but I feel as though there may have been a bit of a drift Back to Avantair, are the details finalized?

 

[realityman]

By the way, do you know why regional pilots are so poorly paid? Because they are willing to fly for such a small amount of money. Do you know why? Because of the higher than marketplace pay of senior captains. The younger guys and gals are willing to work for peanuts to get a shot at such big money. The bigger the top money, the more people will chase it, creating an oversupply.

You are very correct with this statement.

But I have to ask you, how and why did the pay on top get so big? Think about it.

Do you believe it is the way it is because of really generous management? Hmmmmmm, I wonder how the most coveted jobs in aviation got that way?

Someone else suggested reading Flying the Line. It was a very good suggestion. If you haven't read it, you should.

 

[G4dude]

You are very correct with this statement.

But I have to ask you, how and why did the pay on top get so big? Think about it.

Do you believe it is the way it is because of really generous management? Hmmmmmm, I wonder how the most coveted jobs in aviation got that way?

Someone else suggested reading Flying the Line. It was a very good suggestion. If you haven't read it, you should.

The unions caused the high pay for senior captains, putting downward pressure on the pay of junior pilots at majors and especially all pilots at the regionals.

 

[CALRepublic]

Enough of this pro vs anti-union Bul***hit. Who cares. there is more union talk on this forum than the nja union site. jeez

What's the latest on Avantair?

 

[realityman]

The unions caused the high pay for senior captains, putting downward pressure on the pay of junior pilots at majors and especially all pilots at the regionals.

I am trying to follow your logic here. So now you're saying it's the fault of the unions at the majors that the regional guys are getting shafted? I thought you said it was just a case of oversupply of pilots at the regional level.

Or are you saying that the oversupply is caused by everyone trying to get to those great union-created jobs? Do you feel this is bad? Do you think the major unions should negotiate mediocre contracts so the regional guys can make more? Do you really believe it would work like that?

By the way, I've had a look at some of the contracts at the majors. With the exception of the first couple years, most junior pilots make at least as good a living as a fairly senior pilot at NJA, and after enough time most do even better. Not sure how you figure the junior guys at the majors are getting shafted by the senior guys.

 

[SDCFI]

Enough of this pro vs anti-union Bul***hit. Who cares. there is more union talk on this forum than the nja union site. jeez

What's the latest on Avantair?

Currently trading at .40 a share. 2012 and fourth quarter report on Monday the 1st.

http://www.avantair.com/event-calendar.html

 

[G4dude]

I am trying to follow your logic here. So now you're saying it's the fault of the unions at the majors that the regional guys are getting shafted? I thought you said it was just a case of oversupply of pilots at the regional level.

Or are you saying that the oversupply is caused by everyone trying to get to those great union-created jobs? Do you feel this is bad? Do you think the major unions should negotiate mediocre contracts so the regional guys can make more? Do you really believe it would work like that?

By the way, I've had a look at some of the contracts at the majors. With the exception of the first couple years, most junior pilots make at least as good a living as a fairly senior pilot at NJA, and after enough time most do even better. Not sure how you figure the junior guys at the majors are getting shafted by the senior guys.

The unions drove pay for airline pilots, especially senior ones, higher than the market would normally pay. This created a higher number of people willing to invest the time and money and dedication required to become a commercial pilot. This oversupply of pilots would work for peanuts to get in line to get one of those high paid jobs in the future, and the Regionals are where most of them reside. If the entire airline pilot world lost the unions, top pay would decline, creating fewer people willing to become pilots, raising the pay necessary for the Regionals to attract pilots because there would be no more oversupply, and because young pilots would not be as willing to work for peanuts because the prize at the top is less. Just simple supply and demand. Unions have good intentions, but the results often, not always, end up helping the most senior at the expense of the junior, and tend to expand the labor force while decreasing the jobs available. And I say all this as one of the senior guys who benefits from the contract at NJA. I am enjoying the money, but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

 

[G4dude]

I am trying to follow your logic here. So now you're saying it's the fault of the unions at the majors that the regional guys are getting shafted? I thought you said it was just a case of oversupply of pilots at the regional level.

Or are you saying that the oversupply is caused by everyone trying to get to those great union-created jobs? Do you feel this is bad? Do you think the major unions should negotiate mediocre contracts so the regional guys can make more? Do you really believe it would work like that?

By the way, I've had a look at some of the contracts at the majors. With the exception of the first couple years, most junior pilots make at least as good a living as a fairly senior pilot at NJA, and after enough time most do even better. Not sure how you figure the junior guys at the majors are getting shafted by the senior guys.

Oops, I forgot to answer part of your question. The junior pilots I feel are victimized by the union system are the Regional guys and gals.

 

[brokeflyer]

The unions drove pay for airline pilots, especially senior ones, higher than the market would normally pay. This created a higher number of people willing to invest the time and money and dedication required to become a commercial pilot. This oversupply of pilots would work for peanuts to get in line to get one of those high paid jobs in the future, and the Regionals are where most of them reside. If the entire airline pilot world lost the unions, top pay would decline, creating fewer people willing to become pilots, raising the pay necessary for the Regionals to attract pilots because there would be no more oversupply, and because young pilots would not be as willing to work for peanuts because the prize at the top is less. Just simple supply and demand. Unions have good intentions, but the results often, not always, end up helping the most senior at the expense of the junior, and tend to expand the labor force while decreasing the jobs available. And I say all this as one of the senior guys who benefits from the contract at NJA. I am enjoying the money, but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

go find a lower paying flying job then. problem solved.

I like your logic there about the pay....but there is a lot more to it than that. Payscale is just one section. Without a union, those same pilots who are far and few and being paid a lot, would be flown to the point of being unsafe.

I hope i never have to ride in the back of your plane G4....

 

[Helmsalee]

"I am not worth this much, in my opinion."

Finally something we can all agree on.
Helm

 

[Semore Butts]

G4, quite flying and become a comedian!

Wow! So if there were less pilots the pay would go up? Then more people would wanna be pilots, and then the pay would go down?

Clearly your expertise is wasted on the line. You should be in management.

I hope you senior to me, because next contract you'll be giving up that number cowboy.

 

[Semore Butts]

but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

I'm with Helm and you on this one "Geek 4".

 

[gunfyter]

The unions drove pay for airline pilots, especially senior ones, higher than the market would normally pay. This created a higher number of people willing to invest the time and money and dedication required to become a commercial pilot. This oversupply of pilots would work for peanuts to get in line to get one of those high paid jobs in the future, and the Regionals are where most of them reside. If the entire airline pilot world lost the unions, top pay would decline, creating fewer people willing to become pilots, raising the pay necessary for the Regionals to attract pilots because there would be no more oversupply, and because young pilots would not be as willing to work for peanuts because the prize at the top is less. Just simple supply and demand. Unions have good intentions, but the results often, not always, end up helping the most senior at the expense of the junior, and tend to expand the labor force while decreasing the jobs available. And I say all this as one of the senior guys who benefits from the contract at NJA. I am enjoying the money, but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

This theory is mostly correct.

We are not worth more just because we are senior. A contract is negotiated as a package for the whole cost of labor though.... So what is the average cost? The company benefits from this when the pilot force was mostly junior .... when senior the pilots benefit...

 

[brokeflyer]

I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

that is, without a doubt, the most intelligent, well thought out and need to be repeated phrases ever written since people began to communicate.

 

[GooseHZ]

G4 you sir and people like you are not worth the time wasted reading your post.......donate your pay check to the company....mabye they will reward you with a cookie or a G4 model to put in your desk......what an idiot.

 

[UAL-GSO]

I am enjoying the money, but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

You have finally said something everyone seems to agree with.

 

[CE750Driver]

And I say all this as one of the senior guys who benefits from the contract at NJA. I am enjoying the money, but I am not worth this much, in my opinion.

Your Toolness, has never been so eloquently expressed.

Your denseness, will NEVER comprehend how utterly ridiculous this statement is, unless you are a horrible pilot.

Which is not out of the question.

You are hereby named. TOOLBOY.

What say you Toolboy?

 

[BentOver]

he is a management stooge assigned the job of posting here every so often when it's getting close to contract time.. and he recently was tasked with the assignment over at AA... What was the name of that labor law firm again? Something Something Harrison??

 

[G4dude]

Your Toolness, has never been so eloquently expressed.

Your denseness, will NEVER comprehend how utterly ridiculous this statement is, unless you are a horrible pilot.

Which is not out of the question.

You are hereby named. TOOLBOY.

What say you Toolboy?

What specifically did I say that was ridiculous? I like my pay, but I would fly for less, and am aware of what effect union driven wages have on the marketplace. And how the seniority system deprives us, in many cases, from being able to change jobs if our current job doesn't suit us. Managers can change companies, why not us?