AvantAir entire fleet grounded for mx Inspections?

[Capt. JD]

Yeah, I get the sarcasm fvckstick... Like I mentioned a few posts ago... We might still have a little something for ya...

edit to add: And I don't get the whole B19 thing. As I understand it, the person that you suspected as B19 doesn't work here any more...

Wow, has the Avantair layoff hurt the budget on Asian massage visits with happy endings for Sweaty "D"?!

 

[Sparse]

Three flights operating right now. I guess they are back up and running.

 

[AftCG182]

Wow, has the Avantair layoff hurt the budget on Asian massage visits with happy endings for Sweaty "D"?!

Well, visits to the AMP have actually been eliminated from this year's budget plan! :bawling:

Thanks for the rousing "welcome back", gents!

 

[brokeflyer]

And to reaffirm, the guy that was supposed to be B19 isn't here any more...

i can understand why after the crappy job mx has done.

 

[Takeoffroll]

The poster known as B19 hasn't worked at Avantair since about 2006. Y'all have been way off for years. Not sure if the dude is still out there, but damn did he have you all fooled.

 

[Takeoffroll]

And JD, u might want to watch ur back... Cuz tommy ain't watching it for u no more.

 

[imacdog]

The poster known as B19 hasn't worked at Avantair since about 2006. Y'all have been way off for years. Not sure if the dude is still out there, but damn did he have you all fooled.

It's not his current position that's relevant, but the message he brought. The pilots bought into it and were rewarded with a no-notice furlough while planes were being fixed and management continued to be paid. Someone was fooled, that is for sure.

 

[MJPilot]

I can't wait to get back to the best gig I've ever had.

The BEST gig ever??? You've GOT to be kidding!!!

Let 's recap your BEST gig:

1) You dream of flying a Piaggio Avanti P180, being called the Italian Princess for a reason: They are really really touchy, especially during takeoff and landing, non-arguably the most dangerous part of flying. And they do break a lot. Why is that? Well, Piaggio simply was NOT built for fractional operations, period. Perhaps that is the reason why AAIR has never posted positive earnings in its existence.

Apart from that, it is a Part 23 aircraft. What is so wrong with that? Well, for once, it basically only needs to satisfy groundroll takeoff/performance. Good luck taking off in Aspen and losing an engine. I BET that any owner knowing about this fact would bail out of Avantair in a heartbeat. I know you know better as you have flown in a Part 121 operation, where takeoff performance NOT ONLY is based on groundroll, but also on 4 climb-segments that have to be met before a legal takeoff is allowed by FAA safety standards. YOU, my friend, are knowingly flying such an airplane in such conditions which you 're calling "the best gig" yet?...:bomb:


2) If you have not noticed, the P180-II has a circuit breaker already named for antiskid. But to this day, your Italian machine is NOT equipped with such safety features. The result of this? Many skidded, and worse, blown tires, I guess LOTS of fun for you ...:bomb:

"The pilot landed on runway 25, and when he retarded the power levers prior to selecting reverse thrust, the airplane began to swerve, and he corrected with rudder. The right tire then blew out, and directional control was lost. The airplane went off the right side of the runway, and collided with a snowbank. Postaccident examination revealed the left wingtip was crushed, and the composite canard wing was fractured. Examination of the airplane by the operator's mechanic revealed no mechanical malfunction with the airframe, powerplants, or systems. The airport fire department said the airplane went off the 8,000-foot runway at the 5,000-foot mark after leaving a 1,664-foot skid mark."
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20070129X00102&key=1


3) Your Italian Beauty does have simple hydraulic brakes with NO BACKUP to stop the plane. You still might have some pressure within the system to use limited "toe-brakes". But what if there is a hydraulic leak? Good luck with approching 120+ knots and stopping the plane. Wait, you not only use the ability to break but also your nosewheel steering ... now THAT 's what I call a B$tch!!! :bomb:

"When the pilot touched down around 12:20 p.m., he was unable to stop the plane on a 6,000-foot runway and instead veered it off the runway into the grass where it slowed to a stop."
http://www.northjersey.com/news/Plane_veers_off_runway_at_Teterboro_Airport.html?page=all


4) Not only is there NO antiskid but NO nose wheel steering upon landing. Nose wheel steering is allowed for takeoff up to 60 knots, that is IT!!! I am sure you are enjoying landings on 4000 feet airstrips with some nasty crosswinds, or worse, tailwinds. It is REAL fun landing on a snow covered runway on an uncontrolled airfield not knowing how your braking action is. :bomb:

From a past accident:
"The POH requires that the nose wheel steering be disengaged at or before 60 knots during the takeoff. During the interview with the pilots, they said they were unaware of the prohibition against engaging the nose wheel steering during landing. They noted that because the steering system is used up to 60 knots during takeoff, they assumed that the nose gear steering was to be engaged after touchdown during the landing roll, while slowing through 60 knots.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident to be:
The flight crew's failure to follow published procedures/directives in the Pilot's Operating Handbook during landing."
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20080123X00099&key=1

Another one:
"On October 31, 2012, about 0920 central daylight time, a Piaggio P180 Avanti, N401WS, was substantially damaged during a runway excursion while landing on runway 27 at Boyne City Municipal airport (N98) in Boyne City, Michigan.
The pilot stated that after the airplane touched down, it made an uncommanded turn to the left and continued off of the runway. The Airplane struck the airport perimeter fence and came to rest in the same location.
"
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20121031X31551&key=1

"The first officer attempted to correct with right rudder and then right brake. As the airplane decelerated to 60 knots, the captain engaged nose wheel steering and tried to help the first officer. The left wing then dropped and the airplane veered to the right. The captain thought they had "blown a tire." The left main landing gear collapsed and the airplane slid to a halt. The crew then evacuated the airplane. FAA inspectors and Piaggio representatives inspected the airplane and found the left main tire had blown out and separated from its rim, and fuel was leaking from the airplane onto the runway."
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20070327X00334&key=1


5) As a result of 2), 3), and 4), a serious accident happened in 2011 where one of your Piaggios was lost in an accident.:bomb:

Fortunately, only minor injuries were reported.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_ZpvdB5sY

"According to preliminary air traffic control communications, the flight crew declared an emergency due to a reported problem with the left engine, and the flight diverted to FNT. The airplane landed on runway 18 (7,848 feet by 150 feet) and during landing roll, it veered to the right. The airplane departed the runway surface, flipped over, and came to rest inverted. The four occupants exited the airplane with the assistance of airport rescue personnel."
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20111116X31506&key=1


6) Must be LOTS of fun when your controls FREEZE during a flight??? I hope they "snap" on you also while trying to unfreeze them.:bomb:

"During the airplane's descent, the yaw damper disengaged while the autopilot remained on. When the flight crew checked the flight controls for freedom of control, the ailerons, elevator, and rudder were found to be frozen in place. The flight crew exerted enough pressure until the controls broke free with a “snap".”
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20101214X60551&key=1


7) Your marketing guys are trying to sell shares of an aircraft capable of flying at 41000 feet, making any trip from NY to South Florida non-stop, any day, any season. The reality is that strong headwinds southbound make this trip a real challenge. On the other hand, flying into the NY-area, you ALWAYS will be taken out of your high altitude cruising (39000+ feet) down to about 20000 feet or less, right around Washington airspace. Your fuel/burn has now nearly doubled with a huge speed penalty. Now, is this what you call so much fun, trying to complete such flights while debating with your FO whether your flight can safely land with minimum fuel? Why is it that your Piaggio cannot stay up in the high flight levels? I guess your turbo-prop speed is too slow and you are in the way of the BIG guys!!! Good times ... :bomb:


8) I am sure that Avantair has asked you to fly a simple repo leg on top of a 14 hour duty day on many occasions. They will assure you that this practice is legal, as it is flown Part 91. I am sure that this sounds like lots of fun for ya ... :bomb:


9) I am sure that you are NOT carrying a full fuel load on your 4+ hour repo-flights, as most P180 will be in the "out-of-CG" limit on takeoff doing so.:bomb:


At least you know by now that your so beloved Piaggio Avanti is able to fly with HALF its elevator missing. I guess that is where you get your fuzzy feeling from on every take-off.

From an Accident, which Avantair claims to be an incident:
"NTSB Identification: WPR12FA332
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 91 Subpart K: Fractional
Accident occurred Saturday, July 28, 2012 in Henderson, NV
Aircraft: PIAGGIO P180, registration: N146SL"
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20120730X73433&key=1


Again, I hope that you are kidding. If not, enjoy your best gig in your Piaggio!!! I wish you the best.

As far as I am concerned, the time bomb is ticking!!! :bomb:

 

[avantairowner]

Avantair is back I flew yesterday and am so happy to have my Piaggio back. Great job by the crew. Avantair pilots are the best. They were so thankful to be back and spoke so highly of the company. My comparison of Avantair to NetJets and others is Avantair is a micro brew beer and NetJets is Budweiser. The micro Breweries care about every single bottle.

I was at Netjets for a long time and we all know that there were accidents and even a law suit from a pilot who claimed he was forced to fly ill maintained aircraft. I remember receiving a copy. My experience at NetJets was excellent. For me the Piaggio is what differentiates Avantair from the others.

I dont know why Avantair is under attack by Netjets, Flight Options and FlexJet. The emails the sales people sent out about Avantair being gone for good where unture and you should be ashamed. The old NetJets was above this type of conduct.

I also want to add I hired a 3rd party to audit the maintenance records on the airplane I am an owner in. We do this every year for insurance reasons. I got a very good report back. Once again time to leave this company alone.

You should all stick together the strength of the industry benefits everyone associated with it.

 

[Pervis]

I was at Netjets for a long time and we all know that there were accidents and even a law suit from a pilot who claimed he was forced to fly ill maintained aircraft. I remember receiving a copy.

1) Cite one accident.

2) The pilot you mention lost that and other lawsuits.

3) You recieved a copy? Of what? Court cases are in the public domain for all to see for the most part. If you did in fact read the outcomes, you would not use his example to berate Netjets.

4) The odds of you ever flying on the aircraft you own are pretty high, even with a 60 aircraft fleet. The records in 1 of 60 are hardly a reflection of the total, and any insurance company would know that. I call BS on your "ownership" at AvantAir or Netjets.

Very few at Netjets or any other company hold any ill will towards AvantAir or any other competitor. All bravado is simple chest thumping, and mostly in fun. For you to take offense is more indicitive of a young pilot furloughed from Netjets and more recently from AvantAir.