Au revoir ATR.....

[DX Rick]

I'll miss seeing them when in ATL. Love the looks of them. We need more props out there at the regional level.
Enough of this 3-4 hour legs in the RJ. But Asscarpes Delta keeps handing down thier flying to us lowly regionals.

 

[buscap]

Joe,

I can't think of anyone more qualified than you, to helps us fight the defered-apu battle next spring.

Just ask TD about it. I hear he took an oath to never do it again.

RJ life is just fine, but your ass is not gonna like crawling in and out of the cockpit.

And please don't write up the engines because there isn't oil on the cowl. It's supposed to be that way.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

I can't think of anyone more qualified than you, to helps us fight the defered-apu battle next spring.

Just ask TD about it. I hear he took an oath to never do it again.

RJ life is just fine, but your ass is not gonna like crawling in and out of the cockpit.

And please don't write up the engines because there isn't oil on the cowl. It's supposed to be that way.

I understand the defered APU battle...I did it with PACKS on the ATR...My personal opinion now is that this isn't the time to pick that fight.....

The ATR was hot June, July, and August...even with both PACKS....hotter than an RJ w/o an APU......It's time to ensure our survival.....Put the swords away.....

 

[buscap]

You'll see...no apu RJ hotter than no pack ATR.

(No recirc fans, cockpit full of hot tubes)

Got both t-shirts.

But just the same, you'll have fun on the jet.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You'll see...no apu RJ hotter than no pack ATR.

(No recirc fans, cockpit full of hot tubes)

Got both t-shirts.

But just the same, you'll have fun on the jet.

I've never had very good cooling on the ground at ASA.....Bandit and ATR.....Air carts in July just push 90 degree air around.....

If I think safety...real safety....is in question....I will refuse.....If it is comfort only....now is not the time to fight that battle.....

 

[sweptback]

I've never had very good cooling on the ground at ASA.....Bandit and ATR.....Air carts in July just push 90 degree air around.....

At least you have some moving air. 90 degree air with a bit of a breeze is better than 90 degree air with no movement.

The stupidest thing they did was not put recirc fans in the 200. Well, they did a lot of stupid things with the 200. But that's one of them.

 

[JoeMerchant]

At least you have some moving air. 90 degree air with a bit of a breeze is better than 90 degree air with no movement.

The stupidest thing they did was not put recirc fans in the 200. Well, they did a lot of stupid things with the 200. But that's one of them.

The 50 seater was rushed out the door because of the scope clauses....50 seats was the limit...Many problems with that aircraft...

I sat on a Bahamas Air DH8 in PBI without any power on it....It was hot...but everyone survived.....The Bahamians didn't care....

Not arguing with you...but now isn't the time to hurt our numbers....It will only hurt us....

 

[PCL_128]

Believe me, Joey, it's a safety issue in the 50-seater. It doesn't even have a recirc fan, so air just sits still in that tiny little tube while you wait in line with the sun beating on you. There are plenty of cases of heat stroke involving deferred APUs on RJs. I always refused to take them if it was warmer than 85 degrees outside.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Believe me, Joey, it's a safety issue in the 50-seater. It doesn't even have a recirc fan, so air just sits still in that tiny little tube while you wait in line with the sun beating on you. There are plenty of cases of heat stroke involving deferred APUs on RJs. I always refused to take them if it was warmer than 85 degrees outside.

I understand that....ATR's are just plain hot in the summer period....plenty of heat issues on that aircraft without anything defered.....

It is also an issue of reliability and surviving the portfolio whipsaw.....I don't like the competition within a brand...but it is what it is at this point.....

I will help keep the numbers up....

Any of you been in Vegas in July....It's hot.....

 

[PCL_128]

Safety should come before performance numbers.

 

[Abernathy]

Safety should come before performance numbers.

Yes, and on that token, safety shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for being too lazy to follow the cost savings procedures.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Safety should come before performance numbers.

Safety is relative......At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to fly an MD 80 with 2 pilots.....Was it really "unsafe"? At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to have a pilot fly the day after his 60th. birthday...Now it is "safe"....

If you can't take 85 degrees....you probably shouldn't be in the South in July.....

I've refused aircraft for heat....but I also won't sabotage our performance numbers to make a point in this environment.....

 

[deadstick]

Safety is relative......At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to fly an MD 80 with 2 pilots.....Was it really "unsafe"? At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to have a pilot fly the day after his 60th. birthday...Now it is "safe"....

If you can't take 85 degrees....you probably shouldn't be in the South in July.....

I've refused aircraft for heat....but I also won't sabotage our performance numbers to make a point in this environment.....

It's not the 85 degree temperature, it's the 85% humidity!

 

[asayankee]

Safety is relative......At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to fly an MD 80 with 2 pilots.....Was it really "unsafe"? At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to have a pilot fly the day after his 60th. birthday...Now it is "safe"....

If you can't take 85 degrees....you probably shouldn't be in the South in July.....

I've refused aircraft for heat....but I also won't sabotage our performance numbers to make a point in this environment.....

Thats the issue Joe...it's NOT 85 degrees! It may be 85 outside, but it will get well over 100 degrees inside the aircraft.

 

[CFI2766]

Thats the issue Joe...it's NOT 85 degrees! It may be 85 outside, but it will get well over 100 degrees inside the aircraft.

Not to speak for him, or anyone else, but the point that I think was made was that this is a time where it's good for everybody to work with the tools available. It benefits no one to get into a Urinary Olympiad over the small stuff just to make a point, something that has been done numerous times, from both the pilots and from management, at ASA.

I don't see Joe ever taking an airplane that would endanger the safety of the passengers.

 

[sweptback]

"ASA will not dispatch a 200 with an inop APU with the OAT 30 C or above."

You don't even have to do any standing on your soapbox. Just follow the company's FOM guidance!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Safety is relative......At one time ALPA said it wasn't "safe" to fly an MD 80 with 2 pilots....

MD80? Need to go back a little further to the DC9, which by virtue of being lighter than the 737 (under 80,000lbs), could be operated by Delta with two pilots.

With regard to cabin temperature, a Captain's first job is the safety of the passengers in his care. Frankly, we do not know much about the condition of the passengers on board our aircraft. Elderly, overweight, anemic, and pregnant women in particular have problems with high ambient temperature levels.

If you can't take 85 degrees....you probably shouldn't be in the South in July... . I also won't sabotage our performance numbers to make a point in this environment....

Airline passengers are owed the highest standard of care, an extraordinary standard. (to quote Georgia law, in effect, even in July). What you stated would not meet the test of an ordinary standard of care. The quote states a callous indifference to a known hazard which has resulted in injuries to passengers.

This month's Flying magazine has an excellent article on everything that can go wrong without an APU. Despite hours and hours of efforts to get the flight out, the American Airlines Check Airman reacted immediately when passenger safety was the issue.

You are a safe pilot and have the experience to make the right calls - I have every confidence in that. But, new Captains might read what you have written and be so confused as to think taking an airplane without adequate cooling is the ticket to career growth or "saving our airline."

Nothing will harm an airline more than a passenger injury. The typical ER Check and follow up for a pregnant woman with heat fatigue is several thousand dollars. The airline has to pay the medical bills and usually there is some more general damage money paid. $5,000 to $25,000 sure takes a hit off the $25 to $50 the airline might have made on her ticket. These claims EXPLODE when it can be shown the Captain was aware of a hazard and failed to protect a passenger. How does $800,000 hit you for an award for a passenger who got slammed into the overhead while the seat belt sign was off? It was a $125,000 case until the Plaintiff's Counsel found Pireps for Moderate and Extreeme turbulence in the area. That's the difference, in numbers.

With the Americans with Disabilities Act, they have the right to travel, even if it is not smart to do so. Our responsibility is to provide for their safety, even more so than if they were at their home eating Cheezy Poofs.

We pilots are mission oriented, "get the job done," sort of people. Sometimes we need to be reminded that the best safety system on the jet is the parking brake.

And while we are on the subject - anyone know what this is?

http://rosboch.net/aviationmedia/B7... union mandated flight engineer's station.JPG

 

[N1VIBS]

F/E station on 767?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yep - Winner! You get a year's supply of Biscoff Cookies while on duty!

The "Spirit of Delta" has a virtual aerobics room on the flight deck. It was originally built with the F/E position and the bulkhead was never moved to where it is on the later production jets.

I'll miss the ATR, can't believe they are going away.

 

[lindsaya99]

"ASA will not dispatch a 200 with an inop APU with the OAT 30 C or above."

You don't even have to do any standing on your soapbox. Just follow the company's FOM guidance!

We have a similar reg at PSA. I was told it is due to the high temps possibly damaging the CRTs on the flight deck. I guess an added benefit is not killing elderly passengers.