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Atlas going Teamsters
- Thread starter cfire
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flyinboxes
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FedEx is ALPA.
flyinboxes
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Actually, quite the contrary. Atlas is an ACMI carrier, loaders, drivers, etc. are mostly fly by night operations with no union affiliation whatsoever so one would expect NO help during a work stoppage. I have read the rhetoric spewed forth on the ATLASforteamsters site and I must say it was quite disturbing. Mostly hearsay with nothing to back it up. Remember this in the Usair merger, BOTH sides requested an arbitrators decision. That arbitrator told them "you will NOT like what I come up with, you need to go back in there and cut a deal". They would not, he ruled, they blamed ALPA. Now they will always be a split group and management will take them on the ride of their lives.
The issue of seniority is already written in stone now by the arbitor. If your talking about how Polar wanted "follow the flying" in which they could at some point down the road claim everything as theirs if a portion of the company gets sold leaving the Atlas pilots unemployed. That is Polar trying to go back and get another piece of the already predominately won by polar arbitrated seniority list via the later parts of a the merger negotiation process. BTW that is not going to happen. It's more about ALPA funding the attempted removal of Atlas Atlas to be given to Polar.
Wouldn't you looking for blood if the Union you pay dues to was using those funds to take your work away from you and siding with another council just because they voted for them?
BTW there is plenty to back up the web site. Just because they have not spelled it all out on a platter . You are a member, go ask for the numbers at National. If it was false info, wouldn't ALPA already be suing and wouldn't the guys at http://atlasforteamsters.com know they could get sued.
The best thing about the the Teamsters is that a picket line is very easy to identify... It is the guys standing around with baseball bats. It is self correcting for the vision deficient.....No other Teamster will cross it. This is something That the ALPA boys have had a problem with in the past
hvydriver
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Teamsters picket? Really? When's the last time you saw a Teamster represented airline do that? Just asking.
flyinboxes
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I have never seen that before, maybe the ATI guys but I don't think so.
The Netjets guys picketed but they aren't "airline". I didn't see any baseball bats.
I think they are getting rid of IBT and going solo anyway. If the Atlas guys think IBT is going to magically make everything wonderful then so be it. I just think it's a huge mistake, the website is full of crap. Good luck.
Gee, no kidding. Well at least as much as a "Right to Work" state will allow.
Bellerophon
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The only airline to cross our (World Airways) picket line, during the stike three years ago, was a fellow IBT airline Challenge Air cargo. Gemini Air Cargo took a stand against their management and flew their aircraft out empty. I still buy beverages everytime I have the privilige of hanging with a GAC crew.
I and my fellow crewmembers have a different reaction when we run into Challange Air Cargo scabs.
On the other hand, the IBT loaders at Air Canada in LAX walk off our aircraft in support.
Bel
I and my fellow crewmembers have a different reaction when we run into Challange Air Cargo scabs.
On the other hand, the IBT loaders at Air Canada in LAX walk off our aircraft in support.
Bel
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
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GogglesPisano
Pawn, in game of life
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dutch747
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No brother... They had a letter from our local stating it was OK to fly our cargo. Remember Seth confronted them in Indi.
That left a sour taste in our mouths about Teamsters.
Fliteidol
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Well ALPA forgave the Continental job seekers!
FreightBumper
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You are right as usual, wait.. wasn't Delta IBT? No, my bad. They were alpa when they crossed Comair's line to fly all those people from Cincinnati and elsewhere. I guess neither group has the high ground in that arena. Just an observation.
Couldn't be much worse than Polar (ALPA) requesting relief to fly agreed upon Atlas (ALPA) struck work/aircraft during the last minutes to strike release by the NMB for Atlas. Then later have they have the audacity to call Atlas crews scabs after they went on a sympathy strike for Polar which resulted in a Federal court order to return to work.
https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=41015
https://crewroom.alpa.org/AAI072/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=41015
dutch747
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Yes, that was wrong... But how do the Polar guys feel about going to Teamsters?
They don't like it. They have favors due from the ALPA President for votes that have been called on by them. Resulting in all the past delays. The current attempt to go Teamsters would negate that. ALPA just came up with a merger push all-of-a-sudden between Atlas and Polar after the Teamsters push. Probably a PR move (and to keep dues at ALPA) to put a band-aid on the merger situation that should had been done a year and a half ago.
A single carrier situation between Atlas and Polar going to Teamsters would severely screw up the Polar contingents leverage within ALPA against Atlas that has played a big part of the delay for the last year and a half.
A single carrier situation between Atlas and Polar going to Teamsters would severely screw up the Polar contingents leverage within ALPA against Atlas that has played a big part of the delay for the last year and a half.
Cfire and all,
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to comment anyway....
It appears (from what is posted) that you think that ALPA Nat'l is dictating the direction and efforts of the Atlas MEC. I, for one, seriously doubt that is true.
Question: Have you served in an elected capacity on your MEC (either as a LEC rep or MEC Officer)?
From my experience, the old saying is true; ALPA is a "toolbox", and a very good one at that. It is up to the individual airline's elected leadership as to whether the "toolbox" is effectively used. It is a "bottom-up" organization, where the individual pilot has a say (by voting on resolutions, etc.)
Contrast the above with IBT, where (as I understand it) the non-elected "Business Agent" makes the decision as to what is good or bad for the group.
In closing, all I can say, is that if ALPA is not "working" the way that your group feels that is should, then your issue ought to be with your MEC's inability to effectively manage all of the resources that are available to them.
Fratenally,
Skipper
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to comment anyway....
It appears (from what is posted) that you think that ALPA Nat'l is dictating the direction and efforts of the Atlas MEC. I, for one, seriously doubt that is true.
Question: Have you served in an elected capacity on your MEC (either as a LEC rep or MEC Officer)?
From my experience, the old saying is true; ALPA is a "toolbox", and a very good one at that. It is up to the individual airline's elected leadership as to whether the "toolbox" is effectively used. It is a "bottom-up" organization, where the individual pilot has a say (by voting on resolutions, etc.)
Contrast the above with IBT, where (as I understand it) the non-elected "Business Agent" makes the decision as to what is good or bad for the group.
In closing, all I can say, is that if ALPA is not "working" the way that your group feels that is should, then your issue ought to be with your MEC's inability to effectively manage all of the resources that are available to them.
Fratenally,
Skipper
dojetdriver
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Agreed, ALPA is only as good as your local MEC.
Box-Hauler
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The difference that I have seen is that any new deals need to be ratified (voted) on by the membership with the IBT. I believe this is not the case with ALPA. The way I understand it is that with ALPA the LEC or MEC or whomever is in charge of the local airline can make a deal and that is that, no vote, no voice except when it comes time to elect a new leader.
If this is not correct I apologize and am sure I will get flamed......:smash:
I base my opinion on my personal experience, ALPA at a commuter (did nothing for us) and IBT at FAR121 (do more but still not tough enough)
If this is not correct I apologize and am sure I will get flamed......:smash:
I base my opinion on my personal experience, ALPA at a commuter (did nothing for us) and IBT at FAR121 (do more but still not tough enough)
hvydriver
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Box,
FWIW, it's up to the local councils. At 017, any changes to work rules, compensation, retirement, etc., requires membership ratification.
Bellerophon
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You missed the point. Why did the Challenge Air Cargo pilots go looking for a fax? In our contract we do not cross picket lines. The UPS truckers were not looking for a fax. The Gemini Air Cargo pilots were not looking for a fax. I bet those scab pilots who flew our MD-11 back from Africa had a fax too. Those Challenge Air Cargo pilots are scabs that think they can beat the system by having a fax.
Were you at World during the strike? Might explain your lax attitude about it.
Enjoy the benefits.
Bel
Yes ALPA National is a tool box.
It can provide a bulldozer or just give you a hand shovel to do the job of moving a mountain to the MEC or LEC's. They have chosen to provide a dozer for Polar due to ALPA presidential votes and to Atlas only a hand shovel to work with. MEC's and LEC's can only do so much with what they are provided.
On the issue of strikes, Atlas was able to get the Federal courts via the second court order during the Polar strike to uphold our right not to cross a legal picket line. That, however, does not include a parked truck with a "on strike" sign on it somewhere in the vicinity of an airport. The first court order required that we returned to work whether there was a picket line there or not.
BTW Atlas is the only cargo carrier to hold a sympathy strike for another ALPA cargo carrier in ALPA history according to the legal dept.
It can provide a bulldozer or just give you a hand shovel to do the job of moving a mountain to the MEC or LEC's. They have chosen to provide a dozer for Polar due to ALPA presidential votes and to Atlas only a hand shovel to work with. MEC's and LEC's can only do so much with what they are provided.
On the issue of strikes, Atlas was able to get the Federal courts via the second court order during the Polar strike to uphold our right not to cross a legal picket line. That, however, does not include a parked truck with a "on strike" sign on it somewhere in the vicinity of an airport. The first court order required that we returned to work whether there was a picket line there or not.
BTW Atlas is the only cargo carrier to hold a sympathy strike for another ALPA cargo carrier in ALPA history according to the legal dept.
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flyinboxes
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MD11Drvr
Still Learning
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World Airways a little over 3 years ago. On strike for 11 days. Mixed feelings on the circumstances for ending the strike but none the less we walked.
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