Atlas going Teamsters

[FreightBumper]

You are right as usual, wait.. wasn't Delta IBT? No, my bad. They were alpa when they crossed Comair's line to fly all those people from Cincinnati and elsewhere. I guess neither group has the high ground in that arena. Just an observation.[/quote


Well that is certainly a new one. You may want to run that by the 7000 DAL pilots and get a second opinion on crossing a line. Also, you can call the Comair MEC and ask them if the DAL guys are scabs and if so could they send you a list. Pathetic.

I see. It is ok for alpa pilots to cross, but not Teamsters. That's what is pathetic, and it is not new. I have very good friends at Comair and they don't see it the way you do..

 

[flyinboxes]

I see. It is ok for alpa pilots to cross, but not Teamsters. That's what is pathetic, and it is not new. I have very good friends at Comair and they don't see it the way you do..

It doesn't matter how your buds at Comair "see it". What matters is how unions work, and what is legal and what is not. It is corporations maneuvering themselves to circumvent CBA's just as is happening at ABX now. It is knowing what cards you hold before you go all in. It is struck work defined. It is the company knowing how to circumvent this definition. It is knowledge. Had the DAL pilots been able to legally support the Comair strike they would have you see. It is an ALPA pilots obligation. However, corporations have structured themselves in such a way to protect themselves from the power of organized labor. Just as ABX is doing now.

 

[penguin22]

Contrast the above with IBT, where (as I understand it) the non-elected "Business Agent" makes the decision as to what is good or bad for the group.

That's how it worked when ABX was with IBT 747 many years ago. Which is one of the big reasons we went out on our own and formed IBT 1224.

IBT 1224 doesn't have a non-elected "Business Agent". We have an Executive Board, who are all pilots, and are all elected.

 

[FastHap]

That's how it worked when ABX was with IBT 747 many years ago.

Actually we were in Teamsters Local 957, in Dayton, OH. But with our on Local 1224, it's like being both in house and Teamster. The best of both worlds as it were...

 

[erichartmann]

Cfire and all,

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to comment anyway....

It appears (from what is posted) that you think that ALPA Nat'l is dictating the direction and efforts of the Atlas MEC. I, for one, seriously doubt that is true.

Question: Have you served in an elected capacity on your MEC (either as a LEC rep or MEC Officer)?

From my experience, the old saying is true; ALPA is a "toolbox", and a very good one at that. It is up to the individual airline's elected leadership as to whether the "toolbox" is effectively used. It is a "bottom-up" organization, where the individual pilot has a say (by voting on resolutions, etc.)

Contrast the above with IBT, where (as I understand it) the non-elected "Business Agent" makes the decision as to what is good or bad for the group.

In closing, all I can say, is that if ALPA is not "working" the way that your group feels that is should, then your issue ought to be with your MEC's inability to effectively manage all of the resources that are available to them.

Fratenally,

Skipper

My personal experience with IBT is business agents are elected, or appointed by the elected officers of the local.

IBT Local 1224, representing the pilot's at ABX, does not use "business agents". The Executive Board (elected) conducts the business of the local.

 

[erichartmann]

That's how it worked when ABX was with IBT 747 many years ago. Which is one of the big reasons we went out on our own and formed IBT 1224.

IBT 1224 doesn't have a non-elected "Business Agent". We have an Executive Board, who are all pilots, and are all elected.

Actually, we represented a very significant portion of local 957's budget but only 10% of their membership. That made it very hard for us to get anyone elected within the local.

 

[Kruger Stellman]

Teamsters suck. Looking at Atlas's payscale it seems they are way above the Teamster freight dogs.

Don't you just love a guy that has no idea wtf he is talking about. But talks and talks anyway?

Go look at the ABX pay scale JF 10 year CA $235 hr

 

[sgu]

With a good contract to support that hourly pay scale.
ALPA has chosen a team to support and it is not ATLAS. Teamsters will better represent the wants and needs of the Atlas pilot group.
www.atlasforteamsters.com
Read the latest letter from Dave Allen, it is very enlightening to say the least.

 

[AV80R]

ALPA is hands down the best pilot union around... If you happen to be in the top third of Delta or United...

or TWA... or wait, wrong thread...

 

[AV80R]

Don't you just love a guy that has no idea wtf he is talking about. But talks and talks anyway?

Go look at the ABX pay scale JF 10 year CA $235 hr

Well, I'm definitely not an ALPA fan but let's compare apples to apples, please. You're correct that their 10 year CA pay is $235/hr however since their guarantee is only 65 hours a month, if you converted it to the more standard 75 hour monthly guarantee it comes out to $204/hr.

I think when we compare pay and benefits we should always use a similar scale, in this case monthly guarantee. Btw, I've heard ABX is a great gig and I'm not picking on them, I'm just trying to "compare apples to apples."

 

[cfire]

I agree. Both Atlas or Polar would win if they got close to the equivalent of a ABX contract. Apples to apples under all the contracts.

One group just wants to make sure they come out ahead of the others instead of working together, as history has proven out. To the point of taking advantage of a piece of a questionable scope clause they hope to screw a number of guys over on the other side of the equation. That and purchasing ALPA representation at the cost of votes for the ALPA President. But that is a whole other story in itself.

 

[Whale Rider]

I think a lot of what is happening is that ALPA has gotten back on the ACMI is the enemy theme and have cut all expenditures and representation for Atlas. Considering that Prater has been unable to "taking it back" from airline management, he has decided to take it from within. Especially with US Air leaving ALPA for their own in house union. Rumors are abound with Continental pushing to leave also.

There is a difference between supporting an ALPA council and just representing them. We are barely getting the latter.

ALPA only just recently put Atlas Air on the ALPA letter head with all the other ALPA councils. Only after a push for teamsters and someone pointing it out in the normal course of rhetoric.

Even more salt into the wounds is the recent top priority of the NWA - Delta merger when Atlas - Polar has been trying to merge for the last almost three years. Both with contracts overdue by years. Of course that is due to ALPA supporting Polar (170 guys) vs Atlas (700 guys) to log jamb the merger process.

The Merger is a big Joke! There is no merger.

 

[sgu]

Not according to ALPA National and your MEC leader, (Bob H.). Have a nice day.uke:

 

[BlueCanoe]

interesting thread. i'm thinking about leaving my regional and applying to atlas.

just a couple of questions though. with this "gateway" basing and workind 17 days, the travel to and from the gateway is counted in the 17 right?


does atlas have a scope clause to protect the work?


thanks in advance

 

[dutch747]

interesting thread. i'm thinking about leaving my regional and applying to atlas.

just a couple of questions though. with this "gateway" basing and workind 17 days, the travel to and from the gateway is counted in the 17 right?


does atlas have a scope clause to protect the work?


thanks in advance

Interesting question. I think all Union Jobs have a scope clause, but it doesn't always protect the work. This may be one of the main reason why the Atlas MEC wants to switch from ALPA to Teamsters.

 

[cfire]

Looks like ALPA has finally delivered the combined seniority list to AAWW which initiates time lines for the merger.

The Atlas for Teamsters team seems to be happy about that and are not petitioning Polar crewmembers for Authorization cards to make the move to Teamsters.

In their VARS message:
http://www.atlasforteamsters.com/thefacts/vars05282008.html

Atlas for Teamsters

 

[cfire]

Ooops, that should read "are petitioning" Polar crews for Authorization cards to decertify ALPA.

Wish that edit button would stay on longer than it does.

Get a card now:

http://www.atlasforteamsters.com/docs/authorizationcard1.pdf

 

[belchfire]

Airline management, in general, HATES Unions. But they love the Teamsters. Hoffa Junior is a pussie and management lacky and backs union-busting management tactics.

tj

Based on what I have seen at two IBT airlines I would tend to agree!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

At Atlas, U have to travel on YOUR DAYS OFF.

cliff
GRB

 

[cfire]

Originally Posted by tjsatter
Airline management, in general, HATES Unions. But they love the Teamsters. Hoffa Junior is a pussie and management lacky and backs union-busting management tactics.

tj

Has Hoffa allowed egregious amounts of money for one union (Polar 170 members) on grievances that the requested remedy is to take flying jobs away again from a brother union (Atlas at 600 members)? Has he cut the union budget to the bone of the same brother union in favor of the other one that voted for him? Has he log jambed a merger initiated by a previous union president because the favored union council doesn't like it now - but it was great when it was a merger into Polar, while at the same time fast tracks the NWA-Delta merger?

I could go on. It appears ALPA is happy to have our dues money, but wants us at the back of the bus with all the rest of the unworthy ACMI and "B" carrier union brothers.

With Teamsters, we will have more control of the money and where it goes for what purpose.

I wouldn't say that Hoffa is kissing managements posterior. The Railway Labor Act ties the hands of everyone. I have been Teamsters before and ALPA. Both unions just can't stand up and strike when a company finds the holes in your contract. That is in the RLA and I have intimate knowledge of that. Exposed to it constantly and referred to it constantly by ALPA attorneys as to why we can't do something to make a company stop the abuse. ALPA actually likes referring to it so that they don't have to spend money on your grievances unless you are Polar in which you get a free hand of spending money on it and outside attorney's.

My big problem is when union national officers participate in dismantling and sabotage of a brother union council because of influence purchased with a small number of votes for those elected officers.