Atlas going Teamsters

[hvydriver]

FWIW, we've gotten pretty good support at Astar from National. Perfect? Nah. But not worth leaving over.

 

[learjockey1]

FWIW, we've gotten pretty good support at Astar from National. Perfect? Nah. But not worth leaving over.

Heavy, The 9 year SO may quibble with you on that point. What they managed to do to our scope vis-a-vis Ross Aviation turned a career into just a job at Astar.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

All the answers are at www.atlasforteamsters.com

Too many USAPA references...

In addition, it looks like Allen doesn't like Prater.... is that at reason to switch brands?

 

[pipejockey]

I see that there is a push to go Teamsters at Atlas now.

Also they are still doing that preferential hiring for guys from ATA and Kittyhawk.

http://atlasforteamsters.com

Why wouldn't a company prefer to hire pilots that WANT to work there instead of those that are just applying because they are out of work? I'm not being cruel just realistic.

 

[cfire]

The preferential hiring was a union to management coordination thing to get union brothers hired. Kind of what unionism is all about I thought. Helping your fellow union brother/sister.

Unfortunately, I have not seen any of that except at the Atlas council. Everywhere else, it seems union councils don't make any effort for other councils memberships when hard times hit. Kind of describes the overall problem in our industry. Too much "I've got mine, pull the ladder up!"


As to the USAPA references. You are probably talking about the videos. I image the same issues NMB, Voting, internal ALPA issues, and RLA are almost exactly the same for the Atlas to Teamsters move as it was for the US Air to USAPA move. Probably they just didn't want to spend time duplicating the same work answering the same questions and snagged USAPA's stuff.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

ALPA is hands down the best pilot union around... If you happen to be in the top third of Delta or United.

Otherwise you get what turns out to be a really expensive magazine subscription.

That's because ALPA is not a union, it's an association. The Teamsters, on the other hand, are not an association, they are a union.

Comparing ALPA to a union is like comparing the "Salvation Army" to an Army, or a "spud gun" to a gun. All can be effective in certain circumstances when their limitations are known. However, should you come under live-fire, you'll need more than a tambourine and a pop-gun backing you up.

In either case, the quality of the leadership is vital to the strength of the organization. Strong leaders make for strong unions, and strong unions make for good contracts. In that sense, it really doesn't matter which organbization they choose to represent them. If the membership is comprised mainly of "I got mine, to he11 with the rest of you" type guys, it will eventually be rendered ineffective by management.

There are some interesting videos on YouTube that address union-busting. They should be required viewing for any person who calls himself a "union man"

 

[GittinFatter]

OK,
I have been at Kalitta before we had a union. things got better when the union came on the property and we had union leadership that were formidable. Every contract since the first one has gotten progressibly worse. The current president of local 747, is totally worthless. We are thinking of going elsewhere(alpa) because, this current union is a totally frustrating endeavor. Our current pilot represenitives are ok, but the local is totally unsupportive. Be very careful of the teamsters, our current contract is so full of holes, it doesn't really mean anything.

Virtually every ALPA cargo carrier has a better contract and pay scale than than a teamster cargo carrier. Be careful!

 

[flyinboxes]

Atlas Manglement would love to see you switch right now and create your own nightmare right in the middle of negotiations and a merger with Polar. Who's bright idea was this? You only need to talk to a Cactus or a Usair pilot. Management is going to eat their asses alive. Your union is only as strong as YOUR council. It is what YOU MAKE IT.

 

[Fliteidol]

Flyinboxes said;

"right in the middle of negotiations and a merger with Polar"

Well rather that is the point, there is no merger and there are NO negotiations. Nothin`doin as it is!

 

[fob727]

http://atlasforteamsters.com Local 1224 taking at least 6 months getting Atlas's local up to speed, doesn't look like there will be a merger or negotiations anytime soon

 

[cfire]

The arbitration to compel Polar to merge has been extended to July. Unknown how many more times that will be. Then there are a pile of freshly filed grievances that Polar has filed to log jamb things even more. The PID for merger has been stalled (@2yrs) by Prater while he goes off to rescue NWA - Delta's merger.

I believe the local 1224 (the ABX one) will be helping Atlas and not the local 747. I've heard 747 has problems.

Changing should have never entered the Atlas crews minds except the constant budget cutting, and over funding of Polar's budget. Polar's budget (900K) is slightly over twice the Atlas budget (400K) when Polar only has 170 guys vs Atlas's 700 guys. That and ALPA's complicity to help take work from Atlas and give to Polar via these grievances being filed while using Atlas dues to fund it. Of course ALPA has been very selective on when they want to support Atlas in general.

I guess it is pretty simple. Heard it from Polar and ALPA both. Atlas is ACMI and they don't like us.

 

[FastHap]

Virtually every ALPA cargo carrier has a better contract and pay scale than than a teamster cargo carrier.

I'll take my APA Teamster Local 1224 contract over any other unions, save maybe FedEx or UPS.

 

[FastHap]

And furthermore, back in the 80's ALPO wanted nothing to do with Airborne Express, and actually referred us to the Teamsters.

 

[dutch747]

ALPA is hands down the best pilot union around... If you happen to be in the top third of Delta or United.

Otherwise you get what turns out to be a really expensive magazine subscription.

A "Union" is only as good as your local representation and the unity of the group. There is good and bad in both. The one thing that I will say about Teamsters is the fact that many dock workers, Load teams, etc are Teamsters so if times get tough, you may get a lot of support from indirect sources.

 

[FreightBumper]

Having been both ALPA and IBT my opinion is that IBT negotiates better contracts and ALPA provides better pilot representation when needed. IBT's dues assesment are 25% higher. I think an ALPA carrier would do better in a seniority merge since they represent the most pilot groups. ALPA, IBT, and In-house union all have prosand cons, but they are all better than nothing, and pilot unity goes a lot farther than picking the "correct" union. The energy spent decertifying and switching can be much better spent.

Ask the old US Air pilots how well alpa does in seniority merges. They do so well that the US Air guys voted them out.