Atlas going Teamsters

[Whistlin' Dan]

ALPA is hands down the best pilot union around... If you happen to be in the top third of Delta or United.

Otherwise you get what turns out to be a really expensive magazine subscription.

That's because ALPA is not a union, it's an association. The Teamsters, on the other hand, are not an association, they are a union.

Comparing ALPA to a union is like comparing the "Salvation Army" to an Army, or a "spud gun" to a gun. All can be effective in certain circumstances when their limitations are known. However, should you come under live-fire, you'll need more than a tambourine and a pop-gun backing you up.

In either case, the quality of the leadership is vital to the strength of the organization. Strong leaders make for strong unions, and strong unions make for good contracts. In that sense, it really doesn't matter which organbization they choose to represent them. If the membership is comprised mainly of "I got mine, to he11 with the rest of you" type guys, it will eventually be rendered ineffective by management.

There are some interesting videos on YouTube that address union-busting. They should be required viewing for any person who calls himself a "union man"

 

[GittinFatter]

OK,
I have been at Kalitta before we had a union. things got better when the union came on the property and we had union leadership that were formidable. Every contract since the first one has gotten progressibly worse. The current president of local 747, is totally worthless. We are thinking of going elsewhere(alpa) because, this current union is a totally frustrating endeavor. Our current pilot represenitives are ok, but the local is totally unsupportive. Be very careful of the teamsters, our current contract is so full of holes, it doesn't really mean anything.

Virtually every ALPA cargo carrier has a better contract and pay scale than than a teamster cargo carrier. Be careful!

 

[flyinboxes]

Atlas Manglement would love to see you switch right now and create your own nightmare right in the middle of negotiations and a merger with Polar. Who's bright idea was this? You only need to talk to a Cactus or a Usair pilot. Management is going to eat their asses alive. Your union is only as strong as YOUR council. It is what YOU MAKE IT.

 

[Fliteidol]

Flyinboxes said;

"right in the middle of negotiations and a merger with Polar"

Well rather that is the point, there is no merger and there are NO negotiations. Nothin`doin as it is!

 

[fob727]

http://atlasforteamsters.com Local 1224 taking at least 6 months getting Atlas's local up to speed, doesn't look like there will be a merger or negotiations anytime soon

 

[cfire]

The arbitration to compel Polar to merge has been extended to July. Unknown how many more times that will be. Then there are a pile of freshly filed grievances that Polar has filed to log jamb things even more. The PID for merger has been stalled (@2yrs) by Prater while he goes off to rescue NWA - Delta's merger.

I believe the local 1224 (the ABX one) will be helping Atlas and not the local 747. I've heard 747 has problems.

Changing should have never entered the Atlas crews minds except the constant budget cutting, and over funding of Polar's budget. Polar's budget (900K) is slightly over twice the Atlas budget (400K) when Polar only has 170 guys vs Atlas's 700 guys. That and ALPA's complicity to help take work from Atlas and give to Polar via these grievances being filed while using Atlas dues to fund it. Of course ALPA has been very selective on when they want to support Atlas in general.

I guess it is pretty simple. Heard it from Polar and ALPA both. Atlas is ACMI and they don't like us.

 

[FastHap]

Virtually every ALPA cargo carrier has a better contract and pay scale than than a teamster cargo carrier.

I'll take my APA Teamster Local 1224 contract over any other unions, save maybe FedEx or UPS.

 

[FastHap]

And furthermore, back in the 80's ALPO wanted nothing to do with Airborne Express, and actually referred us to the Teamsters.

 

[dutch747]

ALPA is hands down the best pilot union around... If you happen to be in the top third of Delta or United.

Otherwise you get what turns out to be a really expensive magazine subscription.

A "Union" is only as good as your local representation and the unity of the group. There is good and bad in both. The one thing that I will say about Teamsters is the fact that many dock workers, Load teams, etc are Teamsters so if times get tough, you may get a lot of support from indirect sources.

 

[FreightBumper]

Having been both ALPA and IBT my opinion is that IBT negotiates better contracts and ALPA provides better pilot representation when needed. IBT's dues assesment are 25% higher. I think an ALPA carrier would do better in a seniority merge since they represent the most pilot groups. ALPA, IBT, and In-house union all have prosand cons, but they are all better than nothing, and pilot unity goes a lot farther than picking the "correct" union. The energy spent decertifying and switching can be much better spent.

Ask the old US Air pilots how well alpa does in seniority merges. They do so well that the US Air guys voted them out.

 

[PHXFLYR]

But you really don't know why, do you ?

phxflyr

 

[flyinboxes]

I'll take my APA Teamster Local 1224 contract over any other unions, save maybe FedEx or UPS.

FedEx is ALPA.

 

[flyinboxes]

A "Union" is only as good as your local representation and the unity of the group. There is good and bad in both. The one thing that I will say about Teamsters is the fact that many dock workers, Load teams, etc are Teamsters so if times get tough, you may get a lot of support from indirect sources.

Actually, quite the contrary. Atlas is an ACMI carrier, loaders, drivers, etc. are mostly fly by night operations with no union affiliation whatsoever so one would expect NO help during a work stoppage. I have read the rhetoric spewed forth on the ATLASforteamsters site and I must say it was quite disturbing. Mostly hearsay with nothing to back it up. Remember this in the Usair merger, BOTH sides requested an arbitrators decision. That arbitrator told them "you will NOT like what I come up with, you need to go back in there and cut a deal". They would not, he ruled, they blamed ALPA. Now they will always be a split group and management will take them on the ride of their lives.

 

[Fliteidol]

"loaders, drivers, etc. are mostly fly by night operations with no union affiliation whatsoever"

IBT represents an large amount of drivers, loaders and logistics employees. Fly-by-night they are not!!!!

 

[cfire]

Actually, quite the contrary. Atlas is an ACMI carrier, loaders, drivers, etc. are mostly fly by night operations with no union affiliation whatsoever so one would expect NO help during a work stoppage. I have read the rhetoric spewed forth on the ATLASforteamsters site and I must say it was quite disturbing. Mostly hearsay with nothing to back it up. Remember this in the Usair merger, BOTH sides requested an arbitrators decision. That arbitrator told them "you will NOT like what I come up with, you need to go back in there and cut a deal". They would not, he ruled, they blamed ALPA. Now they will always be a split group and management will take them on the ride of their lives.

The issue of seniority is already written in stone now by the arbitor. If your talking about how Polar wanted "follow the flying" in which they could at some point down the road claim everything as theirs if a portion of the company gets sold leaving the Atlas pilots unemployed. That is Polar trying to go back and get another piece of the already predominately won by polar arbitrated seniority list via the later parts of a the merger negotiation process. BTW that is not going to happen. It's more about ALPA funding the attempted removal of Atlas Atlas to be given to Polar.

Wouldn't you looking for blood if the Union you pay dues to was using those funds to take your work away from you and siding with another council just because they voted for them?

BTW there is plenty to back up the web site. Just because they have not spelled it all out on a platter . You are a member, go ask for the numbers at National. If it was false info, wouldn't ALPA already be suing and wouldn't the guys at http://atlasforteamsters.com know they could get sued.

 

[post]

The best thing about the the Teamsters is that a picket line is very easy to identify... It is the guys standing around with baseball bats. It is self correcting for the vision deficient.....No other Teamster will cross it. This is something That the ALPA boys have had a problem with in the past

 

[hvydriver]

The best thing about the the Teamsters is that a picket line is very easy to identify... It is the guys standing around with baseball bats. It is self correcting for the vision deficient.....No other Teamster will cross it. This is something That the ALPA boys have had a problem with in the past

Teamsters picket? Really? When's the last time you saw a Teamster represented airline do that? Just asking.

 

[flyinboxes]

Teamsters picket? Really? When's the last time you saw a Teamster represented airline do that? Just asking.

I have never seen that before, maybe the ATI guys but I don't think so.
The Netjets guys picketed but they aren't "airline". I didn't see any baseball bats. I think they are getting rid of IBT and going solo anyway. If the Atlas guys think IBT is going to magically make everything wonderful then so be it. I just think it's a huge mistake, the website is full of crap. Good luck.

 

[tyoung]

STAY AWAY FROM LOCAL 747! All I have to say

 

[rtmcfi]

Will Teamsters accept all of the old Eastern Scabs?