Ati hiring

[b707guy]

Holy crow, some actual productive dialogue! Thanks guys, it's nice to read some well-considered, informative posts, especially Abxflyr1 - you really got the ball rolling in a more consistent direction with your last two posts. This is the discussion that should have been initiated by ATSG and 1224 to include CCIA and ATI when all this came about. This is where the teamwork and solidarity really begins to show.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

I agree b707guy. Good discussion. And maybe some good will come of it.

Muckles statement says it all:

"Ultimately, I see this issue as one that is good for our profession. It is precisely the type of arrangement that ALPA’s National Career Security Committee has recommended that be negotiated within carrier families and among carriers within holding companies."

They liked ALPA's idea but, unfortunately just not how ALPA suggested it be done.



My biggest concern is our rights under our CBA not be violated by outside unilaterally agreed to side letters. And the absolute least amount of financial exposure to ATI as possible so as not to damage our negotiating position. I can hear it now:

ATI190 negotiators: "Well this is what we need"
Company negotiators: "Hey, we hear ya. And we really would like to help ya'll out. But ya know we have to pay for those "New Hires" salaries and ya know someone has to make up for the loss of production because of all that vaca time they all got right out of the gate.


I'm just say'en.....

FAJ

 

[nitefr8dog]

Holy crow, some actual productive dialogue! Thanks guys, it's nice to read some well-considered, informative posts, especially Abxflyr1 - you really got the ball rolling in a more consistent direction with your last two posts. This is the discussion that should have been initiated by ATSG and 1224 to include CCIA and ATI when all this came about. This is where the teamwork and solidarity really begins to show.

That would have been great! Unfortunately the suggestion fell on deaf ears.

 

[l8fr82hub]

1224 was never interested in ATI's input- especially when it came to negotiating our own contract. The result was a speedy escape to ALPA.

 

[MrSky]

Ultimately, I see this issue as one that is good for our profession. It is precisely the type of arrangement that ALPA’s National Career Security Committee has recommended that be negotiated within carrier families and among carriers within holding companies. ALPA’s committee has astutely reasoned that if they can achieve these arrangements in their CBA’s it will defeat one of the tools used to shift work to reduce cost, and do further harm to our profession. Given that one of ALPA’s premiere and important committees has reached this conclusion, I do not understand why ALPA would not embrace our achievement. Especially when you consider that our agreement is reciprocal and will eventually benefit ATI and CCIA, and that repairing our profession is a long-term endeavor.

For those who decide to accept the ATI offer, be mindful of the potential controversy that your presence may inspire. It is our goal to have a productive relationship with the ATI crewmembers, ALPA and all unions for that matter. Keep in mind that this agreement takes nothing from any ATI crewmember, you go to the bottom of their seniority list, you have no other privilege that the ATI employee one number senior to you has other than the ability to carry over the faithful years of service that you dedicated to our common holding company.

Boy that thing sounds really warm and fuzzy.....

My bet is the grievances will start the second they (ABX) are on the property, at a higher pay and benefit package than someone who has been on the job, and got the job through the normal channels.

Not here to start a fight but I personally will be pissed off if some NFG F/O gets more vacation benefits than I after 12 years. I'm sorry the guys that have been here years, and I'm only the middle of the pack, built this company! We deserve the benefits for our work.

Off my soap box

 

[nitefr8dog]

1224 was never interested in ATI's input- especially when it came to negotiating our own contract. The result was a speedy escape to ALPA.

And I guess there are two sides to every story! I know 1224 tried to communicate with ATI. Unfortunately things did not go to well.

 

[l8fr82hub]

And I guess there are two sides to every story! I know 1224 tried to communicate with ATI. Unfortunately things did not go to well.

To say the least.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Boy that thing sounds really warm and fuzzy.....

My bet is the grievances will start the second they (ABX) are on the property, at a higher pay and benefit package than someone who has been on the job, and got the job through the normal channels.

Not here to start a fight but I personally will be pissed off if some NFG F/O gets more vacation benefits than I after 12 years. I'm sorry the guys that have been here years, and I'm only the middle of the pack, built this company! We deserve the benefits for our work.

Off my soap box

Ok I agree the communication between the Unions was severly lacking and this forum will never decide the outcome of these issues it has ALREADY BEEN DECIDED. It is what it is and both parties will have to live with it like it or not. The next group of newhires at ATI coming from ABX WILL be getting 2 paychecks and WILL be getting vacation of a 12 year employee at ATI. They WILL not receive any added seniority and also will be on probation. The key thing to remember is these are unemployed pilots just trying to feed their families and hopefully will noy be mistreated by ATI pilots just for wanting a job. The added benefit they will be receiving will NOT be coming from ATIs budget and ATI can negotiate the same reciprocal agreement if their management agrees to it. As stated earlier this benefit will help stop whipsawing and job shifting between the sister carriers. The pilot groups definitely need to communicate better and try and stop the infighting which ATSG management will most assuredly appreciate the divison, divide and conquer. The pilots coming from ABX appreciate the ATI pilot groups hard work and dedication to building their company and will also pitch in and help make ATI a better place. Any ABX pilot trying to do otherwise would be biting the hand that will be feeding them. I can see this from both sides but like it or not it has ALREADY BEEN DECIDED by ATSG management. Communication and dialogue between the groups is paramount at this stage of the game.

 

[l8fr82hub]

The next group of newhires at ATI coming from ABX WILL be getting 2 paychecks and WILL be getting vacation of a 12 year employee at ATI.

So it's your opinion that the ABX side letter overrides ATI's CBA on the vacation issue? Our CBA clearly states that vacation accrual is based on years of service to ATI, not ABX, ATSG, or CCI.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

If you're really trying to make it cost prohibiative to shift work from your side of the fence to the other, then make it so your company bears the costs.

As for the vacation issue, again I disagree. You are a new hire, bid as a new hire.

No if the parent company doesn't bear the costs the whipsawing will continue. It has already been agreed to by ATSG and ATSG will bear the costs, otherwise it will just be a shell game by accountants and the job shifting will occur.
The vacation issue you WILL bid as a newhire, nobody suggested anything otherwise nor does the agreement allow for any added seniority benefit.