Ati hiring

[abxflyr1]

I have to say it seems like too much dis-information is the culprit assisting the animosity created in this thread. I would like to add some color to the discussion for the sake of keeping factual information posted regarding this issue.

First, the ABX Side Letter – The agreement is with ATSG, not ATI. It was not free of charge, IBT moved from some scope positions for it. The details are not important nor are proper for this forum. ATI as a company is paying 1st year wages for new hires as they should, anything additional that ATSG agreed to is their responsibility and they will deal with it as such. It will not impact the negotiations for ALPA to enhance their goals.

Second, Will ATSG Pay or Not – This side letter is executed under the IBT CBA. It will be IBT’s issue with ATSG should there be any dispute (major for wages) regarding rates of pay. I personally do not believe it to be any problem as the CEO (Hete) has always indicated ATGS intention to honor their commitment.

Because of the initial issues associated with ALPA and ATI over the longevity carry over, Hete would like to change the terms of the deal to better satisfy his needs. He proposed alternatives to 1224, they have elected not pursue those options for various reasons. So, ATGS/Hete and everyone else will live with it…the good, bad, and ugly.

Third, Union Busting – Misinformed interpretation thru poor communication. ATI was forced into this issue with no option and no information. 50 or so recalls were sent out via ABX seniority. Most of that list is voluntary furloughs going to individuals who have employment else where and aren’t returning to ATI or ABX. So now ATI wasted their time (no fault of theirs) with the 1st go-round. Now recalls went to the entire furloughed list (expensive!). This moves to the heart of involuntary furloughs where plenty of people will avail themselves of this great opportunity.

ATI posted job openings on their web to get applicants who are interested in employment should they be unable to find adequate responses from ABX pilots to fill their needs. It’s only good business sense, not a violation of any law (especially the ABX CBA…that doesn’t even come into play) and it is wise to ensure they have people ready to fill their classes.

In closing, I for one will take advantage of this employment opportunity. I personally have reached out to several ATI current and former crewmembers on this and other forums for information. Each one of them has been extremely nice, willing to help, and appear to be good people that anyone would enjoy working with.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

I have to say it seems like too much dis-information is the culprit assisting the animosity created in this thread. I would like to add some color to the discussion for the sake of keeping factual information posted regarding this issue.

First, the ABX Side Letter – The agreement is with ATSG, not ATI. It was not free of charge, IBT moved from some scope positions for it. The details are not important nor are proper for this forum. ATI as a company is paying 1st year wages for new hires as they should, anything additional that ATSG agreed to is their responsibility and they will deal with it as such. It will not impact the negotiations for ALPA to enhance their goals.

Second, Will ATSG Pay or Not – This side letter is executed under the IBT CBA. It will be IBT’s issue with ATSG should there be any dispute (major for wages) regarding rates of pay. I personally do not believe it to be any problem as the CEO (Hete) has always indicated ATGS intention to honor their commitment.

Because of the initial issues associated with ALPA and ATI over the longevity carry over, Hete would like to change the terms of the deal to better satisfy his needs. He proposed alternatives to 1224, they have elected not pursue those options for various reasons. So, ATGS/Hete and everyone else will live with it…the good, bad, and ugly.

Third, Union Busting – Misinformed interpretation thru poor communication. ATI was forced into this issue with no option and no information. 50 or so recalls were sent out via ABX seniority. Most of that list is voluntary furloughs going to individuals who have employment else where and aren’t returning to ATI or ABX. So now ATI wasted their time (no fault of theirs) with the 1st go-round. Now recalls went to the entire furloughed list (expensive!). This moves to the heart of involuntary furloughs where plenty of people will avail themselves of this great opportunity.

ATI posted job openings on their web to get applicants who are interested in employment should they be unable to find adequate responses from ABX pilots to fill their needs. It’s only good business sense, not a violation of any law (especially the ABX CBA…that doesn’t even come into play) and it is wise to ensure they have people ready to fill their classes.

In closing, I for one will take advantage of this employment opportunity. I personally have reached out to several ATI current and former crewmembers on this and other forums for information. Each one of them has been extremely nice, willing to help, and appear to be good people that anyone would enjoy working with.

A good sensible post.:beer: Kudos.
Although I (and I do admit that I have not personally seen the printed langauge) do believe that any financial liability the side letter creates should be borne by ABX in total. It's sort a like those "unfunded mandates" handed down by Washington that states and communities have to figure out how to pay for.

FAJ

 

[Sopwith C. Amel]

Box-Hauler:
You must not be very old. Quit your whining.
Ciao

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Ultimately, I see this issue as one that is good for our profession. It is precisely the type of arrangement that ALPA’s National Career Security Committee has recommended that be negotiated within carrier families and among carriers within holding companies. ALPA’s committee has astutely reasoned that if they can achieve these arrangements in their CBA’s it will defeat one of the tools used to shift work to reduce cost, and do further harm to our profession. Given that one of ALPA’s premiere and important committees has reached this conclusion, I do not understand why ALPA would not embrace our achievement. Especially when you consider that our agreement is reciprocal and will eventually benefit ATI and CCIA, and that repairing our profession is a long-term endeavor.

For those who decide to accept the ATI offer, be mindful of the potential controversy that your presence may inspire. It is our goal to have a productive relationship with the ATI crewmembers, ALPA and all unions for that matter. Keep in mind that this agreement takes nothing from any ATI crewmember, you go to the bottom of their seniority list, you have no other privilege that the ATI employee one number senior to you has other than the ability to carry over the faithful years of service that you dedicated to our common holding company.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

A good sensible post.:beer: Kudos.
Although I (and I do admit that I have not personally seen the printed langauge) do believe that any financial liability the side letter creates should be borne by ABX in total. It's sort a like those "unfunded mandates" handed down by Washington that states and communities have to figure out how to pay for.

FAJ

The costs are to be shouldered by ATSG not ABX. The ABX pilot will most likely receive 2 checks, one from ATI and one from ATSG, he/she will also get vacation as a 12 year ATI employee but will bid for vacation at their ATI seniority level.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Box-Hauler:
You must not be very old. Quit your whining.
Ciao

Where was I whining, I started my post by wondering how ATI sent a letter to a junior ABX furloughee to fill 10 spots. (see original post below)

"Did ATI send out new hire employee packages to all furloughed ABX people or just to the people they intend to hire, I am very junior and got a fedex package from ATI. Just wondering if its a true job offer or a union busting technique...."

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

The costs are to be shouldered by ATSG not ABX. The ABX pilot will most likely receive 2 checks, one from ATI and one from ATSG, he/she will also get vacation as a 12 year ATI employee but will bid for vacation at their ATI seniority level.

With respect, I have to disagree on the pay issue. If anything, the cost should be borne by ABX's budget. This is a mandate by the CBA between the pilots of ABXAir in the service of ABXAir. Your CBA is backed by ATSG as all our CBA's should be. But the costs should be borne by your sibling company. If you're really trying to make it cost prohibiative to shift work from your side of the fence to the other, then make it so your company bears the costs.

As for the vacation issue, again I disagree. You are a new hire, bid as a new hire. It's that simple. Tell me again how keeping your vaca accural is preventing the shift of flying from one side to another?

Ultimately, I see this issue as one that is good for our profession. It is precisely the type of arrangement that ALPA’s National Career Security Committee has recommended that be negotiated within carrier families and among carriers within holding companies. ALPA’s committee has astutely reasoned that if they can achieve these arrangements in their CBA’s it will defeat one of the tools used to shift work to reduce cost, and do further harm to our profession. Given that one of ALPA’s premiere and important committees has reached this conclusion, I do not understand why ALPA would not embrace our achievement. Especially when you consider that our agreement is reciprocal and will eventually benefit ATI and CCIA, and that repairing our profession is a long-term endeavor.

Wyomingpilot, you sound reasonable. So I ask you to look at it from our perspective. This was done unilaterally without any consultation with the other groups. All this while there was/is a gentleman's agreement between all three groups to keep each other apprised of events on their properties that might affect the others.

Repairing our profession is a long-term endeavor and a worthy goal. But it should not be borne on the backs of others and arranged in one sided back room deals.

As for reciprocity, I am only aware of what others from your group have posted. And that was a very flippant "well, you could always negotiate the same deal." If there is reciprocity language in the side letter please supply.

FAJ

 

[mxer]

FAJ, I understand some of your points. I mainly understand your point about the lack of communication in that your union was not consulted. However, at the time of the side letter, ATI was not hiring. This entire thread could just as easily been Capital instead of ATI. In hindsight, better communications would have been a great idea.

That being said, remember that the first step is always the hardest. If ABX has been able to take one step in protecting all under the ATSG umbrella, perhaps ATI can take steps two and three. Timing may actually be perfect as ATI is in negotiations at the time that the ABX side letter is being put in place. At least you shouldn't have management negotiators try to blow it off as "we don't really see it ever happening".

Keep in mind that in the long run ATI should get a major protection as well as ABX and, eventually, Capital. Whipsawing will be ineffective if each of the three companies are able to get this protection.

I do completely agree with you about the difference in pay should be covered by the appropriate budget.

I think you will find that any ABX guys that get hired by ATI are the same as the ATI pilots. Just good dudes that want to do a good job and feed the family. NONE will be looking to change ATI into a mirror of "this is how we did it at ABX". If someone uses that phrase it will probably be just as a differences comparison.

 

[abxflyr1]

The discussion on who should pay for what….it appears that what most *think* should occur, will.

- ATI’ers impart that any extra pay should not come from their company… and (as far as we have been told) it is not.
- ABX’ers does not care whether the source is ABX or ATSG.

ATSG will ultimately decide how their corporate accounting practices will applied at any subsidiary. As a guesstimate, ABX will most likely do the payroll/accounting work as that is physically where staff, payroll department, etc. is available to handle the process. How it will be displayed on quarterly reports, P/L, and so forth will continue to be ATSG’s decision.

The vacation issue has only been speculated on how it may be handled. Most likely it will be unpaid time-off from ATI that ATSG/ABX will pay accordingly to normal payroll procedures. Again, ATI will not pay a pilot more than the ALPA CBA rate.

WYOMINGPILOT’s post is a cut/paste (not entire) of an email sent to the 1224’s pilot group from their president. It is important to revile your source if you are going to be quoting emails like that, particularly in public..

Ultimately, I see this issue as one that is good for our profession. It is precisely the type of arrangement that ALPA’s National Career Security Committee has recommended that be negotiated within carrier families and among carriers within holding companies…..

.

 

[l8fr82hub]

he/she will also get vacation as a 12 year ATI employee but will bid for vacation at their ATI seniority level.

New hires get two week of vacation- period. It's very clear in our CBA and your side letter does not trump our CBA. ABX will need to pay you guys for the additional vacation time when they reconcile the pay difference.