ATA may fly smaller 100-seat jets. 717's

[vclean]

Antney, I did read and understand your post. I know you voted 'yes'. However, you expressed doubt whether you voted correctly and seem surprised the promised RJs are not here. You and the other 49 % of us voted for unionization. The 'smart time or choice' was last year, as it takes a year or better for a contract to be put in place. Unionization has to be a proactive process. If you wait until organization is needed, it's too late.

You voted correctly, don't have second thoughts regarding your decision. Too bad there wasn't a handful more who voted like you.

Welcome to aviation (had to say it again).

BTW, interns can't fly, and their big egos block the door (had to say that too, FlyChicaga).

 

[Pickle]

FlyChicaga:

You should not worry about carrying the rep of all the interns on your shoulders. Just do your job to the best of your ability, and I am sure you will be fine.

You know, if you don't watch it, that load you are carrying WILL turn into a chip. And that would be the worst thing. It seems that you know what you are doing, you did make it through training, I don't think they would have passed you if you had problems.

So once again, you worry about you, let everyone else worry about themselves. You will be just fine.

ps. I hope this doesn't come out as preachy or anything, it was not meant that way.

 

[Carl_Everett]

ask the guys at eagle about AMR hiring from within. They probably know a little about flow through too. Antney's right. To a company that is extremely sensitive about cost right now he has some very valid points. ATA still owns C8 as a whole and 3 training events to fill one position is not in line with keeping costs down. Now, if C8 were to be sold.... that's another rumor for another thread!

before takeoff checklist to the line
prepare for hyperventilation!

I think the AMR example is a bad one. Those are two different unions, APA and ALPA. There is a lot of anomosity between the two. I have spoken to lots of ATA pilots and they are a good group of guys. I'd bet that ATA ALPA would have used negotiating leverage to get a flow through agreement. Now we will never know.

When things pick up again, C8 pilots will leave for other airlines, leaving the same amount of training events.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Pickle, not preachy at all. Thank you for your insight (seriously).

 

[atafan]

I never said if C-8 voted in ALPA there would be a flow thru agreement with mainline.

First, I responded to a flow thru suggestion made earlier. During contract discussions at ATA the flow through concept was brought up and there did not seem to be enough interest at C-8 to go forward with talks. Remember, 2000 was the boom year and most C-8 pilots were looking at being hired at other major airlines and with ATA's Teamster contract at the time I don't blame them.

Next thought. Unionization. I am not a flag carrying union man, BUT, If you think any employee group is safest without a union at ATA, especially during these times, your just plan wrong!

I'll just look back after 911. Non-Union employees at ATA were all pay frozen and furloughs were accomplished by "performance based analysis", ie politics. The company wanted to furlough all B-727 pilots before being trained on the new aircraft, because the B-727s were mostly being parked, while keeping new hire B-737 pilots. The union said NO and it didn't happen.

The C-8 pilots need ALPA on their property yesterday, will it 100% protect them, NO, it may be too late now anyway. If ATA management decides that placing B-717s on the property and parking some S-340s makes good sense, some C-8 pilots will be furloughed and maybe some might be hired at ATA.

My point is, get union representation NOW! Don't listen to company propaganda or other pilots who have been burned by ALPA before, heck I've been burnt by ALPA before too but I know it is a necessary evil.

 

[NZCHooverboy]

Without A Union

The company would have furloughed by fleet and not inverse seniority. The timeline was in late 2001-early 2002. Our MEC was approached with the idea to furlough the 727 crews in order to quickly park the gas guzzlers (they did haul butt, however). MGMT didn't have the 737-800 fleet up to speed mostly due to their mistakes. Our MEC, backed by ALPA legal, quickly squelched this idea.

C8 pilots, you have no protection without a union. If MGMT deemed it necessary, they would drop you like hot rocks. Just the facts of life, ladies and gents.

 

[cr7driver]

Okay, here is my 2 cents worth!
"regional aircraft" Has to be the most miused term in the history of aviation. Sure the aircraft are physically smaller, but they are doing the same jobs as their larger counterparts. The only difference is the pay and respect that the crews who operate them receive. I feel that the word "regiona"l is one way for management to keep wages down.....nothing else!
I fly a "regional jet" for a major US airline. Furthermore, my airline operates into 32 countries and flies all over the US. From Halifax Nova Scotia to Santa Barbara Calif. Exactly what "region" would you call that?

 

[FlyChicaga]

BTW, interns can't fly, and their big egos block the door (had to say that too, FlyChicaga).

Maybe it's time I get a bigger watch!

 

[mt2]

Relax cr7. I was once a commuter pilot flying for a commuter airline. This business changes so much that before you know it you'll be flying a small, medium-range inter-metropolitan jet.

 

[vclean]

Maybe it's time I get a bigger watch!

If it helps you fly better

I had a decent watch until I caught it on the whiskey hatch. Now I use a cheap Timex.