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ATA may fly smaller 100-seat jets. 717's

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Midnight Mike

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http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/141879-9226-P.html

ATA may fly smaller 100-seat jets
Move would replace larger 737 jetliners, 34-passenger turboprops


Operating options
ATA pilots say the airline is considering smaller jets to replace its 34-seat turboprops. Here’s a comparison of two choices.

Embraer ERJ 145
• Length: 98 feet.
• Wingspan: 65 feet, 9 inches.
This regional jet seats three abreast. It can carry up to 50 passengers for about 1,800 miles.

Boeing 717
• Length: 124 feet.
• Wingspan: Wingspan: 93 feet, 4 inches.
This plane, made for short-haul, high frequency routes, can seat 106 passengers and has a range of 1,430 to 2,060 miles.

Sources: Embraer, Boeing


By Chris O'Malley
[email protected]
April 28, 2004


ATA Airlines might decide to operate smaller jets as a way to increase service to secondary cities and to improve connections between Indianapolis and its Chicago-Midway hub.

Flight crew members of the Indianapolis airline said executives, including Chairman and founder George Mikelsons, have sought the crews' input on flying jets that seat about 100 passengers.

The aircraft would fill a niche between the 175-seat Boeing 737-800s, which comprise the bulk of ATA's fleet, and the 34-seat Saab 340 propeller jets operated by ATA's Chicago Express Airlines.

Last month, ATA said it would drop 737 service between Indianapolis International Airport and Chicago-Midway in favor of the diminutive Saab 340s, even though some customers have soured on the turboprops. The airline said many 737 flights had empty seats.

Pilots at ATA said the airline was looking mainly at adding Boeing 717s, Boeing's moniker for the McDonnell Douglas MD-95/DC-9 family after the two companies merged in 1997. Boeing has upgraded the plane, with its familiar twin-engines near the tail, to make it more fuel-efficient on short-haul, high-frequency routes. ATA officials declined to comment.

The nation's 10th-largest airline also is considering Brazilian-made Embraer regional jets, according to two senior pilots. Embraer jets are used mainly by regional airlines, including Chautauqua Airlines of Indianapolis, which recently placed an order for 16 more 45-seat Embraer jets. Chautauqua also is ordering up to 50 of a new, larger version that can seat at least 70.

The 717 is the more likely choice for ATA, pilots say, because the debt-heavy carrier has an existing relationship with Boeing and the manufacturer is offering sweet deals to move 717s amid fierce competition from Embraer.

"They're so much better than RJs (regional jets). This is a very positive sign. . . . It's exactly what we need at this point," said Erik Engdahl, a Boeing 757 captain and chairman of the Air Line Pilots Association unit that represents ATA. The pilots say they prefer the 717s because they're familiar with the Boeing system and appreciate its larger size, compared with some other regional jets.

Engdahl noted that ATA competitor Air Tran, of Orlando, already operates 717s to feed its Atlanta hub. "We could be very competitive against them."

The 717s could be used in smaller markets now served by the Saab 340, said Mort Beyer, of Washington, D.C., aviation consulting firm Morten Beyer & Agnew.

ATA's Chicago Express unit also feeds flights to Chicago-Midway from other cities, including Cedar Rapids and Des Moines, Iowa; Dayton and Toledo, Ohio; Grand Rapids, Mich.; and Lexington, Ky.

"It would permit George (Mikelsons) to easily expand his local feeder service or go into new markets where the density of traffic wouldn't support 180 seats," Beyer said. "If you need more than 34 seats but you don't need 200 seats, the 717 is very good."

A new 737-800 costs about $40 million, while the 717 can be had for $24 million, Beyer said. It's possible that ATA would lease the planes, given that it has leased many planes before -- and given its financial condition.

ATA averted bankruptcy this year by renegotiating its aircraft leases and maturing bond debt of more than $400 million. The deal will reduce cash payments on unsecured debt principal by $142 million in 2004. It also delays some payments into the latter period of the leases -- cutting ATA's cash outlay this year by $99.4 million.This could give it resources to add to its fleet as demand for travel picks up.

Engdahl said it would not be a hurdle for flight crews of larger ATA planes to become rated to fly smaller jets such as the 717. The smaller aircraft also would provide opportunities for first officers to advance to captain.

Call Star reporter Chris O'Malley at (317) 444-6081
 
Written by a novice, I guess.

Amazing! Crews flying the larger airplanes could be trained to fly the smaller jets! Pray, tell! He also called the 717 a "regional jet", which I found to be a little amusing, and said that it seats 106.

A simple visit to AirTran's website would show that the 717 has 117 pax in two-class configuration. By that standard, I guess the B737-200 would be a "regional jet" too.

I hope you guys get them, and not the EMB.
 
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Per the ATA roadshows the focus is on the B717, but the EMB190 is also being looked at so this reporter seems to have gotten confused. I don't consider the EMB190 to be a RJ.

Nothing on RJ class aircraft for either ATA or Chicago Express.
 
Were the pay rates negotiated for 717 size aircraft? If so, what are they?

I hope ATA, or someone else, picks up some 717s soon. Not necessarily to prevent AirTran from having an orphan fleet, but more because I just like the aircraft so much. I would hate to see it disappear so soon, especially by losing out to the Brazilian POS.
 
DCitrus9 said:
Were the pay rates negotiated for 717 size aircraft? If so, what are they?

I hope ATA, or someone else, picks up some 717s soon. Not necessarily to prevent AirTran from having an orphan fleet, but more because I just like the aircraft so much. I would hate to see it disappear so soon, especially by losing out to the Brazilian POS.

Negotiations are ongoing. The company has made their initial lowball offer but the union has not gotten together yet to hash out a rate. All eyes are on your rates at Airtran.

Yes the EMB will probably be a huge POS if it is anything like the 135, 140, and 145. I flew over 1200 hours in those things and didn't particularly enjoy any of it. It was the American made Honeywell avionics and A/P that I disliked the most about it and not the Brazilian made stuff. We called them disposable jets because they seemed like they would only last long enough to go through a career at one operator.
 
When the 737 first came out, Boeing did market it as a regional jet.
 
The 717 can hardly be classified as a regional jet by any stretch of the imagination. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AirTran fly them on long-haul routes such as MSP-MCO, PHL-FLL, ATL-DEN, and DFW-LAS? 117 seat configuration which includes a Business Class cabin. Sounds pretty nice to me.
 
!!

:D
 
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PingPong said:
So what happens to Chicago Express????

Just my 2 cents but I would guess that they would fly the 145's if ATA goes that way if not i would guess they keep the saabs and fly the same stuff they do now, it would just make it stagnet there.

who knows, never say never in this industry.
 

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